Home | Community | Message Board


Mushrooms.com
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 12 days
The point will come later.
    #2253914 - 01/19/04 09:28 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Like the title says, the point will come later, first, read this essay, and tell me what you think.

Deconstructing Socialist realism: Marxist capitalism and structural dematerialism
O. Linda Porter
Department of Future Studies, University of California

1. Contexts of dialectic
If one examines Marxist capitalism, one is faced with a choice: either reject structural dematerialism or conclude that consensus is a product of the collective unconscious, given that language is interchangeable with truth. Therefore, Baudrillard uses the term 'Marxist capitalism' to denote the role of the reader as writer.

The primary theme of the works of Eco is the difference between sexual identity and narrativity. In a sense, many narratives concerning neomaterialist theory exist.

If the capitalist paradigm of discourse holds, we have to choose between structural dematerialism and predialectic nihilism. However, an abundance of desublimations concerning a self-sufficient totality may be discovered.

2. The capitalist paradigm of discourse and capitalist discourse
"Class is fundamentally dead," says Marx. Bataille promotes the use of structural dematerialism to modify sexual identity. Thus, Debord uses the term 'subtextual construction' to denote the failure, and some would say the stasis, of capitalist class.

The characteristic theme of Prinn's[1] critique of Marxist capitalism is the bridge between language and society. Wilson[2] suggests that the works of Eco are modernistic. But Bataille uses the term 'structural dematerialism' to denote the fatal flaw, and eventually the absurdity, of postsemantic class.

Baudrillard suggests the use of capitalist discourse to deconstruct capitalism. Therefore, Lacan's essay on structural dematerialism states that art is used to oppress the proletariat.

Derrida promotes the use of Marxist capitalism to analyse and modify society. Thus, the primary theme of the works of Gibson is the role of the participant as poet.

The subject is interpolated into a structural dematerialism that includes narrativity as a paradox. It could be said that Debord uses the term 'Marxist capitalism' to denote not dematerialism as such, but subdematerialism.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Prinn, R. ed. (1992) Structural dematerialism in the works of Koons. Loompanics
2. Wilson, V. W. E. (1989) The Reality of Failure: Marxist capitalism in the works of Gibson. Schlangekraft


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: The point will come later. [Re: Phluck]
    #2253940 - 01/19/04 09:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 12 days
Re: The point will come later. [Re: Phluck]
    #2254012 - 01/19/04 09:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Note:

Even if you don't really understand it, tell me what you think to the best of your ability.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemuhurgle
Turtles all theway down

Registered: 10/29/03
Posts: 299
Re: The point will come later. [Re: Phluck]
    #2254050 - 01/19/04 09:59 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
"To make this mundane world sublime
Take half a gram of phanerothyme."

Aldous Huxley


Edited by muhurgle (01/19/04 10:03 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: The point will come later. [Re: muhurgle]
    #2254155 - 01/19/04 10:23 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

lol @ muhurgle.

I have to go have a glass of wine before I tackle that. And even then I may not have a response.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 12 days
Re: The point will come later. [Re: muhurgle]
    #2254160 - 01/19/04 10:24 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Ah, fuck it, I'll just go ahead.

That essay is completely meaningless. It was randomly generated the the Postmodernism Generator:
http://www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/postmodern/ (hit refresh on that page for another dose of randomized drivel.)

The point I was trying to make, was about obfuscation.

Often, people will use complex and confusing language, and others will assume that the person knows what they're talking about. They'll even trust any conclusions that the person has made, after all, they're smarter, and they must know what they're talking about.

The best example of this is pseudoscience. People will write elaborate essays arguing for or explaining an idea of theirs that makes little sense. Most people don't have the patience or prior knowledge to properly criticize these ideas, and will take the conclusion at face value.

Here's a prime example of pseudoscience:
http://www.alexchiu.com/cell/frame.htm
And a link that documents a few more examples:
http://home.pacifier.com/~dkossy/newlibrqsch.html

Another use for obfuscation can be in the middle of a debate:

Someone makes a point.
Someone else comes in with an obfuscated counterpoint, often littered with obscure references and thick language, confusing the first person into stunned silence, or into making a misguided rebuttal.
The second person appears to have outsmarted and successfully refuted the first person, when in reality they could have easily made a very flawed or even nonsensical argument.

In conclusion:

Clarity is key, and if you don't understand it, it might not be because it's beyond you.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefalcon
In the green

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 6,835
Last seen: 23 hours, 49 minutes
Re: The point will come later. [Re: Phluck]
    #2254184 - 01/19/04 10:31 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

  :confused:
you can only redefine terms so many times, at some point all social sciences turn into gibberish borderring on insanity,  people who write like this are best kept in institutions...  the social science section of state run universities.

But the pure meaningless of this essay deserves some recognition. :thumbup:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleinfidelGOD
illusion

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 3,040
Loc: there
Re: The point will come later. [Re: Phluck]
    #2254185 - 01/19/04 10:32 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

yeah I figured it was nonsense when I read "Marxist capitalism" (?)



but it would have been funny if someone had actually taken it seriously!
you jumped the gun.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,378
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: The point will come later. [Re: falcon]
    #2254189 - 01/19/04 10:34 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

All I can offer is a joke:

The physics graduate asks "why?"
The engineering graduate asks "how?"
.
.
.
The social-science graduate asks "do you want fries with that?"

:smirk:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleZero7a1
Leaving YourWasteland

Registered: 10/23/02
Posts: 3,594
Loc: Passing Cloud
Re: The point will come later. [Re: Phluck]
    #2254195 - 01/19/04 10:36 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Well im glad it didnt make any sense, i thought I was going crazy! But it was just bs! Or maybe Phluck is just playing with us, like mice in a mouse trap! Sorry... watching hamlet.


--------------------
What?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefalcon
In the green

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 6,835
Last seen: 23 hours, 49 minutes
Re: The point will come later. [Re: trendal]
    #2254203 - 01/19/04 10:39 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

  :lol: :grin:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePHARMAKOS
addict
Registered: 09/13/02
Posts: 573
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: The point will come later. [Re: falcon]
    #2254233 - 01/19/04 10:50 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

lol good point phluck
and too bad you couldnt wait to spoil the joke cuz i would have beaten you too it

it was pretty thick with buzzwords even for the philosophy forum


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: The point will come later. [Re: Phluck]
    #2254342 - 01/19/04 11:22 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I called my guru after I posted my "going to have a glass of wine" post. 

My guru said that anyone who posts something like that is just trying to show off, and it doesn't really mean anything. 

Honestly, I thought that he was just not trying very hard, and I tried to read it a few more times, but I just felt so stupid because I could tell there were some really "big" words used, but I would have had to go look those up before I couldn't even begin to comprehend what the post was trying to say, and even then, I obviously would have had a difficult time with it. 

Was that the biggest run-on sentence you ever saw or what?

:grin:

Thanks for disclosing the "joke" before I hurt myself.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: The point will come later. [Re: Phluck]
    #2254492 - 01/19/04 11:58 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: The point will come later. [Re: trendal]
    #2254502 - 01/20/04 12:01 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflinePhluck
Carpal Tunnel
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/11/99
Posts: 11,393
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 months, 12 days
Re: The point will come later. [Re: ]
    #2254545 - 01/20/04 12:11 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

hah, wow, I'd love to have heard your attempt to make some sort of sense out of the thing.

Reminds me of a story from quite a while back...
On my first day of math class on the first day of high school, they handed out an excercise sheet that was basically some review. A few of the questions were 'complete the pattern' type of questions: "Fill in the blanks: 2, 4, 6, __, __", that type of deal.

One of them was: "S, M, T, W, T, __, __"
This one confused the hell out of me. I took the excercise sheet home and worked on that question for over an hour. Finally, I came up with a pattern. I assigned a number to each letter (using A=1, B=2, etc...), and discovered a very difficult and intricate pattern. I can't remember what it was now, and I'm definately not going to try to figure it out again, but I ultimately came up with an answer that looked something like: "S, M, T, W, T, L, B"

I was really proud of myself. I figured I'd solved the extra difficult trick question that was there just to see if some kids would actually figure it out.

I handed the sheet in, and was shocked when I got it back with a big red X next to the question.

Turns out the last two letters were "F, S".
"Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday"

Just goes to show you, try hard enough and you'll find a pattern practically anywhere... it just might mean a whole lot less than you think it does.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: The point will come later. [Re: Phluck]
    #2254564 - 01/20/04 12:15 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

- Post History Deleted Upon User's Request -


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleJared
Stranger
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/23/01
Posts: 8,783
Re: The point will come later. [Re: Phluck]
    #2254567 - 01/20/04 12:16 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Lol.. I read through that whole thing and when I finished realized I hadn't gathering a shred of anything from it, and couldn't respond because i had no clue what it was trying to say.. then i saw that you said it was gibberish.. :smirk:

This is getting bookmarked :smile:


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: The point will come later. [Re: Phluck]
    #2254950 - 01/20/04 03:45 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Ah, fuck it, I'll just go ahead.

That essay is completely meaningless. It was randomly generated the the Postmodernism Generator:
http://www.elsewhere.org/cgi-bin/postmodern/ (hit refresh on that page for another dose of randomized drivel.)





When I saw this essay the first time, it was randomly generated by a 1000 monkeys hammering away at typewriters. Think about that!


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSlapnutRob
Toolhead

Registered: 03/31/03
Posts: 520
Loc: Michigan
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: The point will come later. [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2254965 - 01/20/04 04:06 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

I just now tried reading that, and being high I had no chance of understanding it. That was a good point though. Makes me think.


--------------------
Anything stated above is fictional roleplay dialog by the character that is Slapnut Rob, in no way representing the actions or beliefs of the man behind the keys.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Terence McKenna's Timewave Zero Plok 675 3 07/23/05 06:06 PM
by Swami
* novelty theory & sept 11
( 1 2 all )
Agent Cooper 2,665 24 02/27/03 01:22 PM
by Strumpling
* TimeWave Zero tak 665 7 08/09/03 02:08 AM
by dawn of a new day
* timewave software/novelty reports? Xochitl 585 5 12/05/03 10:41 PM
by bumski
* Let's assume for a moment timewave 0(2012) is true 3eyedgod 911 8 12/14/02 08:58 AM
by Adamist
* Terence Mckenna's Novelty: What would he say today? Noviseer 2,150 14 02/12/04 03:23 PM
by Strumpling
* timewave theory ilikeeggs 542 6 03/06/06 06:41 AM
by Annom
* Timewave Zero software Metasyn 1,082 2 09/19/05 04:49 PM
by extinguishment

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, DividedQuantum
1,537 topic views. 1 members, 7 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Magic-Mushrooms-Shop.com
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.067 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 16 queries.