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InvisibleSclorch
Clyster

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Registered: 07/13/99
Posts: 4,805
Loc: On the Brink of Madness
Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22321 - 06/27/00 02:56 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I subscribe to the same philosophy on this matter. If the shroom looks good, it is good.


--------------------
Note: In desperate need of a cure...


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OfflineLizard King
King Lizard

Registered: 10/04/99
Posts: 1,998
Loc: GA
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22323 - 06/27/00 06:49 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I have mixed feelings on this subject. I used to feel the same as you, and if it fruited, I ate it. That was my psilosophy for a long time. Then I fed a bunch of my friends contaminated mushrooms that made each and every one of them sick(I'm not going into detail because I've argued about this all I care to) I will say that I'm almost positive that it wasn't a contamination from the cultivation process. It was due to poorly drying my mushrooms, and storing them all(3oz dried) together in an airtight bag. There was still moisture in alot of the mushrooms, and I think it was enough for some sort of bacteria to thrive in.


Anyway, I'm kind of getting of subject here. I still feel that if a mushroom from a contaminated cake/casing looks healthy, and there's no contam touching or growing on the mushroom, its safe to eat it. I really don't believe that toxins can permeate a mycelium network and contaminate a mushroom on the other side of the cake/casing. I think you would have to eat the toxin(mold, bacteria) itself, before there's any danger.


Bottom line, IMO, if it looks normal, eat it. The only reason to take a little extra precation when home cultivating, is because of the unusual and dangerous contaminants that show up in our jars. In the wild, cubensis grow from cow dung. Cow dung does become infected with molds and bateria, but because it isn't as nutritious as say BRF, alot of the more dangerous molds will never show up in dung. Its because of our tendencies to use highly nutrious grains as substrate, that we have so many problems with contamination. Then we fruit this highly nutritious medium in a well humidified and stable eniviroment. Giving various molds a perfect atomosphere to thrive in.

The wild doens't provide these conditions in a cow field, therefore contamination is less likely to surive and isn't an issue with people who pick wild mushrooms.

The Lizard,



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Anonymous

Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22324 - 06/27/00 07:25 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

It's funny this was mentioned, because when I first started growing, every time I came in here and checked the posts, most everyone that replied basically scared the shit out of me with all the dangers of contamination.
Then I asked Wizard to go into this subject more thoroughly for me, and he pointed out that the mycelium structure is a lot weaker than the human immune system, so anything that will harm us will kill mushrooms.

------------------
" If we have the right fulcrum point, we can move the world."

-Archimedes



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OfflineMuffinBear
liek

Registered: 05/27/00
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Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22325 - 06/28/00 12:15 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I also e-mailed The Shroom Wizard on this and his reply was as long as the mushrooms look ok, they are ok. If they do get contams strong enough to harm us they shrooms wont grow. Well something along those lines and I'm going to listen to him until something goes terrible wrong from eating shrooms from "infected" cakes.


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Invisiblemycofile
Pooh-Bah
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22326 - 06/28/00 07:49 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Just a note:

read the contaminants section in TMC sometime, taking note of toxicity. Most of the common contams are not considered toxic. Green Forrest Mold, Penicillum, Cobweb, Bacterial Blotch.....not none to be toxic.

But, a lot of the species in there are toxic. A yellow version of green mold can cause blindness. A version of one of them is actually where anthrax came from. One causes botulism, and is one of the most toxic naturally occuring poisons in the world.

So, if it's a common contam, it shouldn't be a problem. But if you don't know, don't eat.

Most people don't know, so don't tell them to eat. But help them educate themselves. Tell them to buy TMC and check each contam out before risking it.

------------------
-From a registered Mad Scientist

"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obiwan Kenobi (also a Mad Scientist tm)

VisitThe Donkey!-just behave



--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Anonymous

Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22327 - 06/28/00 05:24 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I know this has been a hot topic for a long time. My question is, has anyone here actually had a problem eating mushrooms that were contaminated? It seems like if this were a big problem, we would here of some instances where this has caused some trouble.


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Anonymous

Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22328 - 06/28/00 06:13 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

From experience, contamination of a substrate that goes undetected would nt cause any health concerns. Because of the life cycle of a mushroom I would nt think that any major toxins could be carried to the fruit. Here s a scenario, you have a contaminated jar that has a mold in it and you unknowingly case it. I know that a mushroom will fruit and reach maturity only if certain conditions are met. Any contamination inside the substrate would nt reach the fruit because it would either kill the ability to fruit or the fruit will manifest before contams are able to kill the substrate hence stop fruiting conditions. I do have some concerns about bacteria infecting a casing but I m not so sure any bacteria that are first of all deadly would grow under those conditions and finally penetrate the fruit without killing it. There is one thing for sure that I know about contamination, The palcebo effect definitely has a reaction on a person s psyche especially if he has prejudices about eating the funky potent shroom s that his buddy grew.


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Anonymous

Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22329 - 06/28/00 06:38 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I'm going to have to agree with Lizard King on this one as well. Eyeball the mushroom itself as well as its mycellium. If both appear to be okay then the mushrooms produced should be fine. However, if you do see some mold and/or bacteria on the casing, slice open one of the mushrooms and inspect it as best as possible. This will give you a better idea of whether or not the basteria has effected the mushrooms themselves. Even though the mycellium and the mushrooms share the network of nutrient-sharing strands, its possible for some bacteria to become localized and therefor harmless to the mushrooms.


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Offlineshroomer9
member
Registered: 04/03/00
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Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22330 - 06/28/00 07:01 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Are black contams common along with the others mentione above? If i have a black contam on my cake and the mushrooms look fine is it alright? has anyone ever had a black contam on their cake and still eaten the shrooms like other people described with common known contams? also the spot is about half an inch in diameter. thanks for the replys


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Offlineshroomer9
member
Registered: 04/03/00
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Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22331 - 06/28/00 07:01 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

also what is TMC? thanks


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OfflineLizard King
King Lizard

Registered: 10/04/99
Posts: 1,998
Loc: GA
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes * 1
    #22332 - 06/28/00 08:43 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

TMC = The Mushroom Cultivator. Its one of the best books written on the subject of mushroom cultivation. Its written by Paul Stamets, owner of fungi perfecti.
Its a must have for the serious cultivator. I don't own a copy my self, but I've borrowed it for months at a time, and have read the entire thing cover to cover more than once.

The Lizard,



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Offlineshroomer9
member
Registered: 04/03/00
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Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22333 - 06/28/00 09:07 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

can anybody please answer my question about black contams? thanks


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Offlinecrispy
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Registered: 12/24/98
Posts: 147
Last seen: 14 years, 9 months
Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22334 - 06/28/00 09:11 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Risk assessment. If I see mold on a cake it is tossed. Personally, I don't feel a little bread mold would harm anyone. In fact the chances of serious harm from ingesting a contaminant are slim. A contaminant or pathogen could be absorbed by a mushroom with no visible mold or discoloring evident. Rice is cheap, friends are irreplaceable. Why would you eat something that you know is contaminated? You and your friends deserve the very best :smile:


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OfflineMuffinBear
liek

Registered: 05/27/00
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Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22335 - 06/29/00 12:50 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Thats why you unsuspectingly feed it to your enemys!!! mwahahahaha!!

anyways....wheres a good place to buy this "The Mushroom Cultivator" book I've heard so much about?



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Offlinesnarf
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Registered: 11/23/98
Posts: 169
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22336 - 06/29/00 01:00 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Dude, don't tell me you're asking where books are bought. :wink:

But seriously, contams don't scare me personally but I wouldn't like the idea lurking in the back of my head if one of my friends suddenly freaks out on something they got from me. Of course if you inform them of that possibilty and they go into it with all the facts, then no worries. Heh. I wouldn't mind if i'm doing them but I hate throwing anything away anyways. Let conscience be your guide. :wink:

-snarf



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Invisiblemycofile
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 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
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Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22337 - 06/29/00 07:24 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Shroomer9, your question is exactly the type I was hoping to get. There is no way in hell anybody can ID that thing through a message board. If you want to know, get TMC and learn how to id contams. Otherwise don't eat contams. (Thats a period BTW)

Yes, it is entirely possible for very poisonous toxins (the contams themselves, or their excrement) to occur during mushroom cultivation. At all stages from spores to drying. If you don't know, it's probably not worth it in my mind.

Many of the most common contams are safe, which is why I suggest you get the book, so you don't waste your only trip that took two months to contaminat...er grow.

Yes, many people have reported getting sick off of contams. Yes many people have called bullshit on this. One fact of the matter is that POISONS CAN AND DO show up during mushroom cultivation. Nobody can deny that.
Why risk it unless you know better?
Why revel in your ignorance when knowledge is bought and sold for $35 a copy?
(Used knowledge is even cheaper and a great way to recycle!)

------------------
-From a registered Mad Scientist

"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obiwan Kenobi (also a Mad Scientist tm)

VisitThe Donkey!-just behave



--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Offlineshroomer9
member
Registered: 04/03/00
Posts: 80
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22338 - 06/29/00 10:08 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

Has anyone ever had a black cbntam on their cake, grown it anyway and eaten the fruits? if so what were the results? thanks for the replys


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Offlineshroomer9
member
Registered: 04/03/00
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Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22339 - 06/29/00 07:33 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

also how big should a spot be when it's declared a contam?


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OfflineKrupa
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Registered: 01/09/00
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Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22340 - 06/29/00 11:29 PM (16 years, 5 months ago)

If it's there, it's a contam, big or tiny. mycofile just said that no one can ID what you have, so you'll have to do it yourself. Your black contam could be different from billy bobs black contam that he ate and was fine with. You probably don't want to chance it. Your local library might have TMC if you want to check it out. Personally, I just toss everything that's contaminated. Not worth the risk and if you keep it around you're only increasing your odds of contaminating something else.


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Offlineaural
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Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: The Dangers Of Eating From Contaminated Cakes
    #22341 - 07/02/00 11:52 AM (16 years, 5 months ago)

I think people need to distinguish between contaminated shrooms and contaminated substrates.
Also,who says that a toxic compound in a substrate will necessarily always wind up in a mushroom? I don't think it's proper to generalize that every compound in a substrate is automatically absorbed by a mushroom...


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