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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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Horizontal vs. Vertical
    #21016126 -

Greetings, and Happy Holidays.

I’m still gathering info, and wanted to settle a question.

RR recommends straw logs be horizontal, on racks with the polytube removed.

Obviously that lets the pins form everywhere, and you get rapid decomposition of the straw thus massive, fast harvests.

But in terms of convenience...


I’ve seen pictures of Reishi logs stacked like cordwood. 

The growers open the ends of the tubes and all fruiting occurs off the open end.

Here’s the question.

I can see you’d get FASTER decomposition with the entire surface exposed to oxygen.

But what about total output?

If you only open the end of a 12” diameter tube 36” long, you have 113 square inches of surface area.

That’s okay; you could concentrate your light, water spray, and FAE right on the ends, and pack 1,280 pounds of substrate in a footprint 4 feet by 8 feet.

With biological efficiency at 100%, that’s a lot of oyster mushrooms from a small footprint.

If you strip the entire tube off, you have 1583.36 square inches of surface area. 

That’s over ten times as much.  With of course, some lost because it’s difficult to harvest off the bottom.  Call it five times as much.

Will both strategies produce the same amount of fruits, with the result being the less surface area exposed the slower the harvest time?

Or will the mycelium senesce after five flush cycles of 5 days plus 5 days rest, tops, leaving you with waste?

In other words, do the mycelium harvest the nutrients throughout the tube and transport it to the end where they fruit, or do they fruit only locally and suffocate if they can’t get to the air?

Has anyone done a regression analysis to determine the optimum configuration for logs?

Vertical is okay if you have a huge waterproof room with sturdy overhead framework.

I did a fast calculation and decided I won’t be hanging a ton or two of weight from my rafters.  I’m allergic to my roof caving in.

That leaves building sturdy waterproof frames, or ... stacking horizontally.

If I could stack logs like cigars, and fruit off the ends for two months, I could PACK in the substrate.

And my solution for the water problem is to build PVC framed 4’ deep by 8’ high by 8’ wide  “tents” out of the inexpensive translucent plastic.

An automated sprinkler system could spray down the logs, an automated FAE blower would blow in O2, and I’d use a heat recovery ventilator to discharge the warmed exhaust.

According to RR, this would actually help heat our building in the winter !

Waiting to receive your wisdom, oh Sages.

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Re: Horizontal vs. Vertical [Re: Jkirk3279]
    #21016300 -

Wow word castles are hard to read.

If I get the gist of you question, a reduced fruiting area will not neccessarily end up reducing yield to a point. The myc will focus the extra energy water and nutes into the fewer fruits and will result in larger fruits. This can offset the smaller number of fruits to a point.

With straw logs, they tend to trich out easily so you are typically just looking for a one flush wonder. A really good BE on one fast run. So you fruit all sides and as straw typically holds a lot of water, fruit size is usually pretty damn good.


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:headbang3: Pastywhyte's Easy Writeups :headbang3: My Favorite Grow Logs :headbang3:
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Re: Horizontal vs. Vertical [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21016335 -

Not as hard as a wall of text though....lol.


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Re: Horizontal vs. Vertical [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21016343 -

You'll have better luck asking this type of question in the "Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms" forum. :thumbup:


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“Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
― George Orwell, 1984

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
― Albert Einstein

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Re: Horizontal vs. Vertical [Re: Fungus Mountain]
    #21016359 -

Fungus Mountain said:
You'll have better luck asking this type of question in the "Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms" forum. :thumbup:


Damn I missed the oysters part :facepalm:


--------------------
:headbang3: Pastywhyte's Easy Writeups :headbang3: My Favorite Grow Logs :headbang3:
:headbang3: Avoiding the dreaded facepalm in cultivation :headbang3: The worst threads all have the same subjects :headbang3:
:headbang3: Q & A.M.U. :headbang3:

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Re: Horizontal vs. Vertical [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21016371 -

Pastywhyte said:
Fungus Mountain said:
You'll have better luck asking this type of question in the "Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms" forum. :thumbup:


Damn I missed the oysters part :facepalm:



:ohyou:


--------------------
“Until they became conscious they will never rebel, and until after they have rebelled they cannot become conscious.”
― George Orwell, 1984

"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."
― Albert Einstein

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Re: Horizontal vs. Vertical [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #21016382 -

Pastywhyte said:
Wow word castles are hard to read.


I feel like you just don't like reading. :lol:

OP, I dunno about any regression analysis of this topic.  I find it pretty hard to get good statistics out of mushroom growing because each culture is different.

to get a true analysis you would need to test one culture for both types of growing. multiple times.

reishi is also different from oysters.

I feel like the stagnant air at the unopened end of the tube will breed something, sporulate, and then fuck up your longer fruiting logs.
:shrug:

I've also been wrong before.

if you need help with any calculations, pm me

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Re: Horizontal vs. Vertical [Re: blojo02184]
    #21020816 -

I really appreciate the help, guys.

I was really hoping the mycelium would harvest nutes from the entire log and fruit from the open end where the oxygen, light, and water misting are.

I can see that the faster you fruit, the more you avoid contams, but the consensus I’ve gained is that once fully colonized, Oyster logs are bulletproof.

Stamets uses them to EAT the E.Coli bacteria runoff from his farm.

Now I just have to figure out how to build waterproof racks.

I designed a PVC rack, then ran my calculator and discovered the rack would have to hold half a ton !

Well, PVC is good, but it can’t do that without breaking the bank.

The rack would have to have legs every six inches.

Wood can do it though.  Apparently you paint it with Fiberglas Resin once it’s screwed and glued.

I’m running simulations... the logs can’t be wider than 14”, but maybe 14” by 36” would work for shoehorning mass into the least horizontal footprint.

If someone had already tested this, with multiple ratios of diameter to length, that’s where the linear regression would come in.

Weigh the fruits, run the calculator, and the line will point you to the right ratio.

Cheating might also work.  I happen to have some tiny PEX tubing.

I never use the small PEX so I was wondering what to do with it.

Well, drill some holes in it, clean it up, and insert it into the straw log while you’re packing it.

Then use an aquarium pump to blow in O2 on a timer.

The 7” radius of a 14” log could be re-oxygenated with, say, 15 minutes of pressurized air per hour.

That would also flush out CO2 of course.

Fruiting requires light; if the polytube is black or completely covered, the extra O2 would support the mycelium without causing it to fruit inside the tube.

Or that’s the theory.

I suspect I’ll need to approach that cautiously, so the mycelium doesn’t get super-hot and kill itself.

Imagine it worked, though. 

The PEX would be re-usable, practically forever.

A manifold could be made from PVC pipe, and fed from a large air compressor.

A wall of 14” by 36” logs with vinyl tubing feeding in O2 in metered amounts, simply covered in Oyster Mushrooms.

And the theory will be cheap to test.

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