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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19992973 -

Would have?



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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #19992989 -

Why is it that nobody is willing to address the root causes of the rising cost of living?  Inflation is eating away at wages but everyone is focused on minimum wage.  The real problem is inflation! !


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Shins]
    #19992995 -

Inflation in the US isn't shit.


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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19993009 -

If that were true, why is the cost of living rising and minimum wage a problem (to libs?)

inflation is the root of the problem.  You've got your head invthe sand zap.  The CPI is what doesn't mean shit.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Shins]
    #19993114 -

Shins said:
Why is it that nobody is willing to address the root causes of the rising cost of living?  Inflation is eating away at wages but everyone is focused on minimum wage.  The real problem is inflation! !



True, or at least that is a problem, bound to get much worse.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Stonehenge]
    #19993154 -

The paradox here is that liberals want all these social programs to help out the poor, but they cause inflation which hurts the poor!

A lot of conservatives would rather keep inflation low, or even have deflation so that things are more affordable relative to wages so that we don't need so many social programs.

I hate when libs say conservatives hate the poor, we just have a different way of helping them which actually adresses the roots of the problem.


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Shins]
    #19993298 -

Shins said:
If that were true, why is the cost of living rising and minimum wage a problem (to libs?)



The cost of living is rising at a snail's pace and has been doing so for well decades.  Why is the minimum wage an issue for libs?  Because some of them  are stupid and the not stupid ones want to exert control over the populace.
Quote:
inflation is the root of the problem.  You've got your head invthe sand zap.  The CPI is what doesn't mean shit.



You're right.  It doesn't include the incredible drop in cost for so many technological elements that plummet in price.  Like refrigerators.  Inflation isn't shit.  It is a fact.


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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Shins]
    #19993311 -

Shins said:
The paradox here is that liberals want all these social programs to help out the poor, but they cause inflation which hurts the poor!



It is irrelevant to the poor.
Quote:
A lot of conservatives would rather keep inflation low, or even have deflation so that things are more affordable relative to wages so that we don't need so many social programs.


:rofl2:  It is irrelevant.
Quote:
I hate when libs say conservatives hate the poor, we just have a different way of helping them which actually adresses the roots of the problem.



You are not a conservative.  You are a fringe one issue proselytizer.


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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Shins]
    #19993323 -

Shins said:
If that were true, why is the cost of living rising and minimum wage a problem (to libs?)

inflation is the root of the problem.  You've got your head invthe sand zap.  The CPI is what doesn't mean shit.



Inflation is currently at nothing
we need to spend
we need to protect workers and consumers


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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #19993419 -

We are actually seeing a combination of deflation and inflation, but mostly deflation. Oil is pushing the prices of certain things higher (cost-push inflation) but although it is very noticeable, its not too bad (people arent rioting over hunger or anything...yet)

The federal reserve actually has inflation targets where they are trying to create inflation because they are seeing the widespread deflation spiral our economy is in so they want to try to counter act it. Unemployment is dropping slightly but the number of people leaving the workforce is a lot higher. Workforce participation is at a 36 year low and still on the decline. Less people working = less money being spent = deflation. Also the take home pay median in the US was ~56k a couple years ago but its down to 50k today and still dropping. Once again less money being spent = deflation.

If we didn't have oil bottlenecking trade then our eceonomy would be able to naturally deflate and although less people working and lower wages, prices of goods would decrease to match it. But oil is causing the potentially disastrous inflation along side the deflation. (Hence why I think we find our selves in wars in the middle east, messing with russia again, and pushing oil fracking/pipelines).

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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Nova]
    #19993428 -

Deflation is disastrous


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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19993430 -

zappaisgod said:
You're right.  It doesn't include the incredible drop in cost for so many technological elements that plummet in price.  Like refrigerators.  Inflation isn't shit.  It is a fact.



actually it does, shows how much you know.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_regression

Quote:
Hedonic models are commonly used in real estate appraisal, real estate economics and Consumer Price Index (CPI) calculations. In CPI calculations hedonic regression is used to control the effect of changes in product quality. Price changes that are due to substitution effects are subject to hedonic quality adjustments.




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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #19993455 -

I'm talking about basic necessities,  not luxuries. It seems like it comes down to the idea " I suffered for this and so should you." And to me that is insane.

Instead of giving out homes, like I said earlier,  I'm in favor of some kind of guaranteed income to spend on the basics. If all you want is the basics than thats good but most people want more than the basics, they want luxuries.  If you want luxuries, get a job.  More free time spent doing whatever (creating stuff, having a family,  meaningful stuff) and less poverty and suffering.

I'm a utopian tree hugger btw lol

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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Shins]
    #19993463 -

People tell you with a straight face that there is no inflation and yet look at the price of gas over the past 10 years. Its shot up, even more over the last 20 or 30. Oil has gone up so oil changes cost more, heating oil, etc; car batteries have shot up in price due to liberal policies. Food too has gone up a lot in price. The cpi is a work of fiction.

>You are not a conservative.  You are a fringe one issue proselytizer.

You are only conservative about supporting gop and being against welfare. Anything else and you are as likely to be in the lib camp as not.


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“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.” (attributed to Alexis de Tocqueville political philosopher Circa 1835)

Trade list http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18047755

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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Shins]
    #19993469 -

http://stats.bls.gov/cpi/cpifaq.htm#Question_7

Quote:
    FOOD AND BEVERAGES (breakfast cereal, milk, coffee, chicken, wine, full service meals, snacks)
    HOUSING (rent of primary residence, owners' equivalent rent, fuel oil, bedroom furniture)
    APPAREL (men's shirts and sweaters, women's dresses, jewelry)
    TRANSPORTATION (new vehicles, airline fares, gasoline, motor vehicle insurance)
    MEDICAL CARE (prescription drugs and medical supplies, physicians' services, eyeglasses and eye care, hospital services)
    RECREATION (televisions, toys, pets and pet products, sports equipment, admissions);
    EDUCATION AND COMMUNICATION (college tuition, postage, telephone services, computer software and accessories);
    OTHER GOODS AND SERVICES (tobacco and smoking products, haircuts and other personal services, funeral expenses).




Well so it does.  A very tiny bit.  In fact, the list looks quite comprehensive.  Would you care to explain why you think that list is unrepresentative?


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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Stonehenge]
    #19993495 -

Stonehenge said:
People tell you with a straight face that there is no inflation and yet look at the price of gas over the past 10 years. Its shot up, even more over the last 20 or 30. Oil has gone up so oil changes cost more, heating oil, etc; car batteries have shot up in price due to liberal policies. Food too has gone up a lot in price. The cpi is a work of fiction.



Oil is a volatile commodity the price of which is a product of politics.  If you don't like the price of energy blame the politicians who create artificial shortages.
Quote:
>You are not a conservative.  You are a fringe one issue proselytizer.

You are only conservative about supporting gop and being against welfare. Anything else and you are as likely to be in the lib camp as not.



Nope.  My only support for the GOP is as opposition to the Dems.  For the most part they aren't conservative, either.  And I don't give two shits about religion.

My position on drug prohibition is that everything should be legally available to any competent adult.  Is that a liberal or a conservative position?


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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19993523 -

The Hedonics Hoax

http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=561

Quote:
The idea behind hedonic price index calculation is to incorporate quality changes into prices. This way, a product may be on the market at a higher price, but when the product qualities have augmented more than the price in the eyes of the BLS, it will calculate that the price of this product has actually fallen.

Applying the hedonic technique to a host of goods and services means that even when prices are generally rising, but product improvement is deemed to be larger than the price increases, the calculated inflation rate will fall. With a lower inflation rate, the transformation of nominal gross domestic product (GDP) into real GDP will render a higher result.

Likewise, given a constant labor input, productivity will increase. Hedonics opens the door to producing magical results: a lower inflation rate with generally rising prices, a higher growth rate although the economy may be weaker, and a higher productivity number, though productivity would have been declining without the hedonic imputations.




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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Shins]
    #19993580 -

Oh what a surprise a link the whackjob Mises Institute.  I never would have guessed.


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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: zappaisgod]
    #19993651 -

zappaisgod said:
Oh what a surprise a link the whackjob Mises Institute.  I never would have guessed.



You didn't even know hefonics existed, you're in no pisition to make any judgements


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

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Re: Senate Democrats Join Republicans to Block Minimum Wage Hike [Re: Shins]
    #19993680 -

The concept is nothing new and you should be able to spell it.  Quality should not be a factor?  That is fucking stupid.  You could intelligently argue that it is subjective but to argue that there is no substantial difference between the best refrigerator from my childhood and the shittiest refrigerator today is idiotic.


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