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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Registered: 09/11/01
Posts: 1,351
Loc: BC Canada
Go to Cuba, go to jail!
    #1997348 - 10/10/03 03:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)



That's pretty creepy...sure doesn't sound like freedom to me!

God forbid red blooded Americans witness socialism. Better to keep them away and tell them horror stories about it.

Whatever your political slant, surely you must agree, the travel ban to Cuba is an attack on human rights.

U.S. President George W. Bush said he will crack down on Americans illegally travelling to Cuba



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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


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Offlinewingnutx
Registered: 09/25/00
Posts: 2,268
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1997353 - 10/10/03 03:28 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Supporting the Cuban dictatorship is an assault on human rights.

Not sure how I feel about the embargo, though.


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Invisiblecarbonhoots
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: wingnutx]
    #1997497 - 10/10/03 04:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

A military government is not a perfect situation...and it always violates human rights. Cuba has a military government.

However, I think the USA doesn't give two shits about military governments around the globe...USA has a long history of supporting them.

What the USA cares about is socialism. Any socialist movement around the globe is what Americans crush. Why? Because socialism takes away from the ruling class, who would much rather own everything themselves than have collective ownership.

Collective ownership of major wealth producing national entities (like utilities, insurance, banking, etc...) is good for the people, and I think Cuba did much better as a country under Castro, than Batista(the right-wing military government USA supported, that Castro overthrew)

It's not about human rights. It's about ownership. That's all Bush 'n company care about. They care about who owns.

Bush should say he's supporting private ownership of national wealth with this travel enbargo. At least that wouldn't be a lie. He has no respect for the citizen's intelligence, and regularly lies to them to further his elitist, aristocratic agenda.



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  -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me

CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES


Edited by carbonhoots (10/10/03 04:21 PM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1997740 - 10/10/03 05:04 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

we were going to go this winter, but started
hearing all sorts of horror stories.

they can do some pretty bad things to you
if they find out you've traveled there.

I wouldn't be surprised if they started
labeling tourists as enemy combatants,
stripped their rights and hauled them off
to gitmo...


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: afoaf]
    #1997988 - 10/10/03 06:21 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Jesus. What a person does after they leave these borders is none of the government's business.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1998171 - 10/10/03 07:05 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

that's what I'm saying, but I sure
as hell am not going to lay my
fate in the hands of Ashcroft and
his band of merry men.


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Anonymous

Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1998242 - 10/10/03 07:32 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

What the USA cares about is socialism. Any socialist movement around the globe is what Americans crush. Why? Because socialism takes away from the ruling class, who would much rather own everything themselves than have collective ownership.

hahaha. do you know how rich castro is? every high-ranking official in that government is loaded.

It's not about human rights. It's about ownership. That's all Bush 'n company care about. They care about who owns.

you speak as though the embargo is something george w. bush thought up back in the '60's.

it's against the law for americans to travel to cuba because they don't want american tourist money supporting a communist dictatorship that once pointed nuclear missiles at us from 90 miles away.

or is it really that the real reason is because our government is afraid to let its citizens travel to cuba and see what a terrific success socialism has been for them?  :smirk:.


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Anonymous

Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: carbonhoots]
    #1998274 - 10/10/03 07:43 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Any socialist movement around the globe is what Americans crush. Why? Because socialism takes away from the ruling class

you mean steals property from its rightful owners?

the capitalist west's beef with socialism has to do with the fact that it's a collectivist system which cares nothing of individual rights, be it right to property, life, or liberty.

the worst part of all is that it's a shitty system. socialism just doesn't work. the market is far too complicated to engineer and control, especially by the sort of inept, corrupt, bureaucracies that most people's revolutions end up spawning.

have you ever read animal farm? i like it.


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: ]
    #1998406 - 10/10/03 08:37 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Cuba went from being a third world country to doing fairly well under the socialist system. Socialism is good for human rights -classism, racism, sexism, environment- bluddy lot better than capitalism thats for sure.


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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Offlinegrib
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1998432 - 10/10/03 08:55 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Hey folks, it's been a while. :grin:  :mushroom2:

Quote:

Jesus. What a person does after they leave these borders is none of the government's business. 




Well said! Anyway, there are plenty of easy ways to travel to Cuba... What they are saying now varies little from the current realities of travel. The only thing we should worry about are situations like the 68 year old woman in Florida who's facing many years in prison and the loss of all she possesses because she went to Iraq to protest the 'aggression'. Wow! That?s what our forefathers envisioned, a country where the citizens are told where they may and not go... sweet! I('d) love this country(if I was a National Socialist)!  :sad:

wingnutx: I'm guessing by your comment 
Quote:

  Supporting the Cuban dictatorship is an assault on human rights.  


that you've changed. You must be furious about the 'terrorists' being held at Guantanamo without human rights, e.g., legal due process.  :smirk:
 


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<~>Our truest life is when we are in dreams awake <~>


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Offlinedomite
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: enotake2]
    #1998434 - 10/10/03 08:57 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

"Socialism is good for human rights " -enotake2

Socialism has fuck all to do with human rights, and it is arguably even worse for human rights, although it could go either way...

In the case of Cuba, unless everything I know about Cuba is a lie fed to me by the governement (in wich case I could argue everything you know about Cuba could be a lie fed to you by communists) Fidel is not exactly a champion of civil rights. Of course, economicly, the country is doing very well, considering it is under an embargo... of course, Why is it under an embargo in the first place? Becuse they are socialists.

"the capitalist west's beef with socialism has to do with the fact that it's a collectivist system which cares nothing of individual rights, be it right to property, life, or liberty. " - mushmaster

Yes, the fact that we take out socialist democracies and support capitalist dictatorships is just a concidence, im sure...



And why is bush fucking with cuba already? What happened to the middle east?


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Offlinemonoamine
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Registered: 09/07/02
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Loc: Jacksonville,FL
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: domite]
    #1998781 - 10/10/03 11:26 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I see that many people in this thread confuse Communism and Socialism.
Cuba can accurately be labled a Communist country.

I'm really going to try to defend Castro because he is a fairly evil guy,but I don't think he is quite as bad as he is portrayed in this country. Cuba's always been a shithole and it was even worse when Baptista was in power.Cubans may have few rights,but they have a relatively decent standard of living and one of the highest literacy rates in the world.

Anyway,this is fucked up. A country has no right to regulate its citizens outside the country or its territories.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
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Offlinelysergic
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Registered: 06/09/03
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: ]
    #2004392 - 10/13/03 03:44 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
it's against the law for americans to travel to cuba because they don't want american tourist money supporting a communist dictatorship that once pointed nuclear missiles at us from 90 miles away.

or is it really that the real reason is because our government is afraid to let its citizens travel to cuba and see what a terrific success socialism has been for them?  :smirk:




I think it is the latter.  Once Americans who have enough cash to travel go to Cuba, see the brilliant, socially progressive, technologically advanced, free and liberal eutopian social paradise, they won't want to come back to our evil, satan-led black, cold country.

:-)


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In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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OfflineBhairabas
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Registered: 07/21/03
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: lysergic]
    #2005007 - 10/13/03 01:14 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

it's against the law for americans to travel to cuba because they don't want american tourist money supporting a communist dictatorship that once pointed nuclear missiles at us from 90 miles away.

Are you telling me that before this happened the US didn't have Hundredes of missiles pointed at USSR??? Give me a break..


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: monoamine]
    #2005050 - 10/13/03 01:35 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

I don't know if literacy rate is a good measure
of standard of living.

cuba is a largely an impoverished nation with a
horrific health care system.

since the fall of russia, it has been spiraling down
the drain.

it might not be the best example of socialism or
communism.


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Anonymous

Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: Bhairabas]
    #2005196 - 10/13/03 02:19 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Are you telling me that before this happened the US didn't have Hundredes of missiles pointed at USSR???

i don't think so... let's see...

"it's against the law for americans to travel to cuba because they don't want american tourist money supporting a communist dictatorship that once pointed nuclear missiles at us from 90 miles away."

unless i missed something, i don't see anything about the US pointing missiles, nor about the USSR.

ps. personally, i think the embargo should be ended.


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OfflineBhairabas
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: ]
    #2005262 - 10/13/03 02:45 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Hahahaha!!


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: Bhairabas]
    #2007077 - 10/14/03 01:57 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

If you could post me where the article you posted alludes to americans going to jail for it, i'd apreciate it


--------------------
In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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OfflineAyahuasca
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Registered: 09/19/03
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: lysergic]
    #2007497 - 10/14/03 04:26 AM (13 years, 1 month ago)

Funny thing:
Sweden, we are ruled by a Socalist parti, and as far as I can see we have no problem with human rights. Socialism and communism can't and shouldn't be confused. Those 2 ARE close but not that damn close. I would say socialism is a more "right-winged" example of communism. Well I voted (last election) on the most left winged parti we have in our parlament, but I am a member in something called "Syndicalist", which is a mix betwin Anarcism and Communism, (yes, you could call me communist). We are a non-parlament organization. "Fighting" for a decentralized community, which means that that the own county has more to say than it has today.


--------------------

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Trying to catch the grey creatures!
Rule # 1: If you lying on the floor not holding on to anything you are not stoned ENOUGH!! Yarr!!!!


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Offlinehongomon
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Re: Go to Cuba, go to jail! [Re: afoaf]
    #2008292 - 10/14/03 02:48 PM (13 years, 1 month ago)

It doesn't seem fair to look at an island nation that has endured a strict embargo for 30 years, and judge its political-economic system.

We should lift the embargo and see what Cuba can do with itself.


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