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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: koods]
    #19441151 -

XLCaps said:
The Patient said:
I'm sure the offender showed no sympathy towards his victims, good riddance.


Yeah, he did.


koods said:
The Patient said:
I'm sure the offender showed no sympathy towards his victims, good riddance.


Bloodlust


You can't tell me that you haven't gained pleasure in watching someone else suffer in one way or another, It's human nature.

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: The Patient]
    #19441178 -

And human nature is always good. People never do bad things and that's why it's okay to do bad things to people who do bad things, except they don't.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.


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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: elax420] * 2
    #19441203 -

elax420 said:
What you are calling for is a change in the very nature of humans.

Asking people not to seek vengeance is ridiculous. The law is there first and foremost to provide security and stability, if the law doesn’t provide a way for peoples vengeance to be satiated the people will seek it on their own. IE rioting and what have you.


So sure keep beating that kumbaya bullshit, it will never happen (at least here) though.



All the nations of the world are doing fine without the death penalty, from the developing nations to the nations at the forefront of innovation. There's just some nations that are behind in their development. In most cases there's the excuse that they are underdeveloped poor nations with a long history of dictatorships.

America has no such excuses, where it comes to the death penalty its the retarded cousin of developed nations. Everybody is far ahead, even highly underdeveloped and highly undemocratic nations, and way in the back sits America, holding onto petty state sanctioned revenge, killing killers to solve killing, committing violence against violent offenders to stop the violence, 4% of the world's population housing 25% of its prisoners, arguing that waterboarding isnt torture, the NSA making any paranoid schizophrenics worst delusion come true by spying on the population like in the novel 1984, building an army of drones to literally peek into everybody's windows while having an unprecedented arsenal of nuclear bombs ready to fly at the push of a button.

Its a sad story. It isnt just that 32 states are financially bankrupt, your government's approaching a moral and sanity bankruptcy also.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: healing]
    #19441216 -

healing said:
And human nature is always good. People never do bad things and that's why it's okay to do bad things to people who do bad things, except they don't.


All those things are inevitable, If we didn't have a moral compass 'good' and 'bad' wouldn't mean anything.

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: The Patient]
    #19441220 -

The Patient said:
healing said:
And human nature is always good. People never do bad things and that's why it's okay to do bad things to people who do bad things, except they don't.


All those things are inevitable, If we didn't have a moral compass 'good' and 'bad' wouldn't mean anything.


A moral compass is defined as a person's ability to judge good and bad.

So you just said that if we don't have the ability to tell the difference between what is good or bad, then we wouldn't have the ability to tell the difference between what is good or bad.

Does that make sense to you? You responded to my intentionally circular reasoning with more circular reasoning.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.


Edited by healing (01/19/14 05:31 AM)

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: healing]
    #19441485 -

uh aren't those just agonal respirations? He's probably not feeling anything if that's the case.


--------------------

My Wish & Trade list

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: The Patient]
    #19441544 -

The Patient said:
XLCaps said:
The Patient said:
I'm sure the offender showed no sympathy towards his victims, good riddance.


Yeah, he did.


koods said:
The Patient said:
I'm sure the offender showed no sympathy towards his victims, good riddance.


Bloodlust


You can't tell me that you haven't gained pleasure in watching someone else suffer in one way or another, It's human nature.


Umm. Maybe a little schadenfreude, but not physical pain,. And it shouldn't be codified into law.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: koods] * 2
    #19442001 -

When I was in the Navy, we haad two guys on the ship drop dead almost instantly from snorting pure heroin.  they bought it and thought it was coke so the snorted up huge lines of it.  I don't know what happened but it can't be that hard to give an instantaneously lethal amount. 


While it is easy to think that someone who does that kind of a crime should be severly punished, I think the whole Penal approacch in the US is archaic.


I mean you always hear 'Department of "CORRECTIONS"  Bullshit.  The penal system in the US doesn't correct anything.  They should change the name to "The Department of Revenge and Punishment"


--------------------
:smug: [/url][/url] 
:smirk: IF THE NEIGHBORS COMPLAIN BECAUSE THE MUSIC'S TOO LOUD, TURN IT UP SO YOU CAN'T HEAR THEM BITCH    :smirk:

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19442017 -

starfire_xes said:
When I was in the Navy, we haad two guys on the ship drop dead almost instantly from snorting pure heroin.  they bought it and thought it was coke so the snorted up huge lines of it.  I don't know what happened but it can't be that hard to give an instantaneously lethal amount. 


While it is easy to think that someone who does that kind of a crime should be severly punished, I think the whole Penal approacch in the US is archaic.


I mean you always hear 'Department of "CORRECTIONS"  Bullshit.  The penal system in the US doesn't correct anything.  They should change the name to "The Department of Revenge and Punishment"


I would go so far as to say that putting a person in a U.S. penitentiary should fall within the category of cruel and unusual punishment.


--------------------
Open mind, open heart, open book.


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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: Set]
    #19442029 -

Set said:
elax420 said:
Go read the thread yourself.

Im not doing you work for you.

Or keep being a condescending dick, ya know whatever one works better for you.


lol why can't you link me?  I'm trying to be nice.

I'm a dick?  Your title is "anal destroyer".  :congrats:

So are you a hemorrhoid, or dysentery, or something else?



:rofl2: anal destroyer :lol: that was HILARIOUS. You sure know how to manifest a verbal ruckus


--------------------
My purpose: to love, to share, and to experience....all while conforming to my psychedelic experiences.


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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #19442073 -

XLCaps said:
That's pretty fucked up. In a sense I agree with capitol punishment but that's just torture, and morally reprehensible.

The punishment should fit the crime, and I would be quite comfortable living knowing those would be my consequences.


"The punishment should fit the crime" is probably the most ambiguous argument for capital punishment I've ever seen.

Chopping off people's hands for stealing and genitalia for raping seem to fit.

Should we have locked Ariel Castro in a basement and raped him for 20 years?

Or are we somehow morally superior to the most deranged people on the planet?


--------------------

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: Asante]
    #19442159 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
elax420 said:
What you are calling for is a change in the very nature of humans.

Asking people not to seek vengeance is ridiculous. The law is there first and foremost to provide security and stability, if the law doesn’t provide a way for peoples vengeance to be satiated the people will seek it on their own. IE rioting and what have you.


So sure keep beating that kumbaya bullshit, it will never happen (at least here) though.



All the nations of the world are doing fine without the death penalty, from the developing nations to the nations at the forefront of innovation. There's just some nations that are behind in their development. In most cases there's the excuse that they are underdeveloped poor nations with a long history of dictatorships.

America has no such excuses, where it comes to the death penalty its the retarded cousin of developed nations. Everybody is far ahead, even highly underdeveloped and highly undemocratic nations, and way in the back sits America, holding onto petty state sanctioned revenge, killing killers to solve killing, committing violence against violent offenders to stop the violence, 4% of the world's population housing 25% of its prisoners, arguing that waterboarding isnt torture, the NSA making any paranoid schizophrenics worst delusion come true by spying on the population like in the novel 1984, building an army of drones to literally peek into everybody's windows while having an unprecedented arsenal of nuclear bombs ready to fly at the push of a button.

Its a sad story. It isnt just that 32 states are financially bankrupt, your government's approaching a moral and sanity bankruptcy also.



All really?

:lol:


Why are you bringing up water boarding and the NSA?  America is hardly the only country that does any of that. BTW america is still by far and large the richest country on the planet.  Way to show that canadian obsession though by going completely off topic on an anti american rant lol

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: starfire_xes]
    #19442208 -

starfire_xes said:
When I was in the Navy, we haad two guys on the ship drop dead almost instantly from snorting pure heroin.  they bought it and thought it was coke so the snorted up huge lines of it.  I don't know what happened but it can't be that hard to give an instantaneously lethal amount. 


While it is easy to think that someone who does that kind of a crime should be severly punished, I think the whole Penal approacch in the US is archaic.


I mean you always hear 'Department of "CORRECTIONS"  Bullshit.  The penal system in the US doesn't correct anything.  They should change the name to "The Department of Revenge and Punishment"


Finally some sense. :thumbup:


--------------------


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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: nooneman]
    #19442459 -

nooneman said:
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but the reason they can't use pentobarbital is because companies and even countries refuse to provide it to them for the purpose of execution.

Don't blame the state, this is a problem caused by countries and companies opposed to execution blocking the sale of pentobarbital. Some companies have even stopped producing it just so that it wouldn't at some point end up being used in an execution.

And the end result is suffering. What a stupid way to oppose execution.


Maybe it's a sign :rofl2:

Instantly starts blaming the other countries :kingtard:

:facepalm:

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: Synthe]
    #19442467 -

Quote:
Why are you bringing up water boarding?  America is hardly the only country that does any of that.


Waterboarding?  Sure,  Colombia, Cambodia, North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan.

Idi Amin did it too.

Quote:
Way to show that canadian obsession though


Thank you, but the only thing Canadian about me is some of my silver bullion.

Quote:
anti american rant


Thats not antiamerican. I was criticizing your government so, unamerican perhaps.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: Asante]
    #19442495 -

Quote:
nooneman said:
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but the reason they can't use pentobarbital is because companies and even countries refuse to provide it to them for the purpose of execution.



Could it be they have ethical objections to becoming the present day Tesch und Stabenow of your state sanctioned murder program?


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: Asante]
    #19442555 -

Sure, they have legitimate concerns, but look at what the result is. Instead of the quick relatively painless pentobarbital, you end up with prolonged suffering. While they have legitimate concerns, they are actually dramatically increasing suffering rather than decreasing it.

They're protesting execution by making executions worse. Is it ethical to increase the suffering of the person being executed as a form of protest against execution? That punishes the person being executed for something the state is doing.

Edited by nooneman (01/19/14 01:24 PM)

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #19442585 -

"Look what you made me do, by not giving me a gun I had to kill him with a screwdriver."

Thats what you're saying. They refuse to supply a weapon to a murderer and you blame them for the murderer killing its victims less humanely.

Its the world upside down.

Analogy?

"The US is guilty of Saddam Hussein's mustard gas attacks on the Kurds because they refused to sell him the precursors to nerve gas"

No!! Thats insane reasoning!


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

Onehomemission.org
truly make a difference

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: nooneman]
    #19442735 -

nooneman said:
Sure, they have legitimate concerns, but look at what the result is. Instead of the quick relatively painless pentobarbital, you end up with prolonged suffering. While they have legitimate concerns, they are actually dramatically increasing suffering rather than decreasing it.

They're protesting execution by making executions worse. Is it ethical to increase the suffering of the person being executed as a form of protest against execution? That punishes the person being executed for something the state is doing.


That logic is absurd. And, considering that the refusal to provide these drugs for the purpose has caused a number of states to put a temporary moratorium on execution, the policy has worked. This is exactly the type of pressure that has worked in the past to change policies in other countries when the world has decided that the policies violate global norms for acceptable behavior. Obviously, on a larger scale, but when nations and corporations refused to do business with South Africa due to apartheid, the racist government of that country eventually had to capitulate.

In addition to the pharmaceutical industry's refusal to do business with states that have capital punishment, many professional medical organizations like the one that accredits anesthesiologist have stated that physicians that participate in an execution will lose their accreditation.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: So Ohio just executed a murderer/rapist. His overdose lasted over 15 minutes before he died. [Re: Asante]
    #19442790 -

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:
Why are you bringing up water boarding?  America is hardly the only country that does any of that.


Waterboarding?  Sure,  Colombia, Cambodia, North Korea, Iran, Afghanistan.

Idi Amin did it too.

Quote:
Way to show that canadian obsession though


Thank you, but the only thing Canadian about me is some of my silver bullion.

Quote:
anti american rant


Thats not antiamerican. I was criticizing your government so, unamerican perhaps.



Dude waterboarding is common as fuck. Im not up to date on my wikileaks shit but I’m pretty sure Britain was caught doing it too, I’m not supporting or protesting it just saying.


Shit you can water board yourself and see what it feels like its really easy, and not nearly as bad as any other torture methods.


A rag and water bottle is all you need.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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