Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

Kratom Eye
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

Community > The Pub
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags by Magic Bag   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 |  [ show all ]
Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity?
    #19259842 -

927 People Own Half Of All Bitcoins

Ownership of Bitcoin appears to be highly lopsided. This has long been a source of consternation in the Bitcoin community, and people like the FT's Izabella Kaminska have written extensively about the implications of this apparent cartel on prices — basically, they get to dictate them, and the rest of us are just price takers.

Now Finnish entrepreneur Risto Pietilä, an active member of on Bitcointalk.org, has offered an estimate of just how severe this ownership imbalance could be.

He based his calculations on data from Bitcoinrichlist.com, which has trawled through Bitcoin's master ledger — the Blockchain — to offer a rough guide to distribution as well as activity on Bitcoin exchanges.

We ran the calculations by Martti Malmi, one of Bitcoin's earliest developers, and he agreed they were basically sound. "The order of magnitude seems right," he said in an email to BI.

So, as of Dec. 3., using a price of $1,000 (which is basically where we are now), and assuming 12 million Bitcoins in circulation, here's the breakdown: 47 individuals own 28.9% of the approximately 12 million Bitcoins in existence so far. Another 880 own 21.5%, meaning 927 people control half of the entire market cap of the digital currency. Another 10,000 individuals control about a quarter. And the rest of us (around a million of us) get the crumbs (500,000 are out of circulation, whether through government seizure or people losing their passwords). 





And here's what that means in terms of ownership: those same 47 people each own at least $10 million-worth of Bitcoins. The mean net worth may be much higher. Another 880 individuals each own at least $1 million-worth of Bitcoin. About a million people own $10,000 or less worth.





Bitcoin is anonymous, so we don't know who all the 47 individuals are — though some, like the Winklevoss twins and Roger Ver, have publicly identified themselves.

Bottom line: Bitcoin has made a fraction of people very rich. And then there's the rest of us.


(source: http://www.businessinsider.com/927-people-own-half-of-the-bitcoins-2013-12)


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 3
    #19259858 -

So when it's in BITCOIN people think "oh wow good for those 47 people they must have gotten out ahead or be clever or be good at investing etc."


and when it's in USD they're the worst people ever.

:whatever:


--------------------
:wizard::deemsters:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 3
    #19259961 -

Quote:
And the rest of us (around a million of us) get the crumbs (500,000 are out of circulation, whether through government seizure or people losing their passwords). 


Call the waaambulence....  You should have invested the time, money and effort and made the leap of faith required back in 2010 if you wanted more than crumbs.  BitCoin was not developed to satisfy hippy's wealth redistribution fantasy.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: DieCommie]
    #19260031 -

For a lot of people supporting BTC, it is. Have you not heard someone say "Bitcoin is the future of the world" or something similar?

You may be able to achieve a higher degree of anonymity with BTC than you can with our standard currencies, but this is about it.

And though this article doesn't go into the implications of a disproportionate ownership of BTC--it's really just a report on a recent finding verifying a long standing suspicion--one of these implications is that the majority owning minority are able to exert an undue influence on the price of BTC--essentially making bitcoin another form of centrally controlled currency.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #19260064 -

No, that logic does not follow.  The owners are not centralized and the owners of bitcoins do not control the currency.  Sure they can dump their coins and lower the price, or they can buy coins up and raise the price.  Thats always the case and nobody expects anything different.  If anything its the mining pools that come closest to "controlling the currency".  Their behavior sets the technical protocols and tends to any errors like a fork in the blockchain that happened last spring.  But their power is of course directly proportional to their hashing strength, which is controlled by the many miners who can (and do) switch pools.

Just because some people claim that "BitCoin is the future of the world" doesn't mean its designed to fulfill a socialist ideal.  BitCoin was developed with libertarian/freedom ideals in mind, not wealth redistribution/socialist ideals in mind.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: DieCommie] * 3
    #19260085 -

927 people heavily involved in a ponzi scheme speculative bubble.  :cookiemonster:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: DieCommie]
    #19260088 -

DieCommie said:
Quote:
And the rest of us (around a million of us) get the crumbs (500,000 are out of circulation, whether through government seizure or people losing their passwords). 


Call the waaambulence....  You should have invested the time, money and effort and made the leap of faith required back in 2010 if you wanted more than crumbs.  BitCoin was not developed to satisfy hippy's wealth redistribution fantasy.


I don't think that's what the author was implying. I think they were implying that it casts doubt on whether or not Bitcoin will be a worldwide currency.


--------------------
AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: qman] * 2
    #19260101 -

qman said:
927 people heavily involved in a ponzi scheme speculative bubble.  :cookiemonster:


This is a moronic thing to think.  A speculative bubble can't be a ponzi scheme, by definition those are separate and distinct ideas.  BitCoin value has certainly been speculated up, this has happened before, there has been a crash before and bitcoin has recovered before.  Its certainly not a ponzi shceme because there is no dividend or return at all.  You should read up on what a ponzi scheme actually is;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: qman]
    #19260111 -

qman said:
927 people heavily involved in a ponzi scheme speculative bubble.  :cookiemonster:



How exactly is bitcoin a ponzi scheme?  Its not.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: Shins] * 1
    #19260114 -

The USD is the worlds biggest ponzi scheme.


--------------------
http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: DieCommie] * 1
    #19260120 -

DieCommie said:
qman said:
927 people heavily involved in a ponzi scheme speculative bubble.  :cookiemonster:


This is a moronic thing to think.  A speculative bubble can't be a ponzi scheme, by definition those are separate and distinct ideas.  BitCoin value has certainly been speculated up, this has happened before, there has been a crash before and bitcoin has recovered before.  Its certainly not a ponzi shceme because there is no dividend or return at all.  You should read up on what a ponzi scheme actually is;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme


"This is moronic thing to think"

Relax dude, It's a pure speculative bubble in my opinion.

If you have made profits in this investment, congrats.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: qman]
    #19260125 -

Then why did you say its a Ponzi scheme?  If you are going to perpetuate foolish ignorance, expect to get called out on it.

In the bitcoin community, calling bitcoin a ponzi scheme is like the saying shrooms make your brain bleed here in the psychedelic community.  Its BS and its going to get called out.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: DieCommie] * 1
    #19260147 -

DieCommie said:
Then why did you say its a Ponzi scheme?  If you are going to perpetuate foolish ignorance, expect to get called out on it.


I smoked a bowl of some decent weed 1 hour ago, it appears it has compromised my thought process, shit happens.  :jah:    :rofl:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: qman]
    #19260168 -

Actually, there is a striking similarity between a ponzi scheme and bitcoin and the stock market. You did know what you were talking about, qman.


--------------------
AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: qman]
    #19260175 -

I certainly cant fault you for that.

BitCoin has been accused of being a ponzi scheme, usually by old people who just dont get it, or technology in general.  Rather than bother to understand it they just label it and move on.  This happened most when it first started and was most confusing to the old people.  Old people dont understand technology, and thats OK because they dont need too since they are going to die soon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: s240779]
    #19260180 -

Da2ra said:
Actually, there is a striking similarity between a ponzi scheme and bitcoin and the stock market. You did know what you were talking about, qman.


No there isnt.  Dont perpetuate BS.  The stock market contains many equities, some of which do provide a dividend which could in theory be maintained by capital raised from the issuing of new stock.  But with no dividend or return at all its impossible to be a ponzi scheme.  Do you know what a ponzi scheme is?  I dont think you do.


The first paragraph of the wiki,
"A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to its investors from existing capital or new capital paid by new investors, rather than from profit earned by the individual or organization running the operation. Operators of Ponzi schemes usually entice new investors by offering higher returns than other investments, in the form of short-term returns that are either abnormally high or unusually consistent. The perpetuation of the high returns requires an ever-increasing flow of money from new investors to sustain the scheme."

There is absolutely not return to any "investor" of bitcoin.  If you own one you will always own one.  It doesnt grow or even purport to grow over one.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: DieCommie]
    #19260189 -

DieCommie said:
I certainly cant fault you for that.

BitCoin has been accused of being a ponzi scheme, usually by old people who just dont get it, or technology in general.  Rather than bother to understand it they just label it and move on.  This happened most when it first started and was most confusing to the old people.  Old people dont understand technology, and thats OK because they dont need too since they are going to die soon.


What do you believe gives the Bitcoin its perceived value?  Encryption?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: DieCommie]
    #19260199 -

Similar in a less direct sense. Both a Ponzi scheme and the stock/currency markets profit from other peoples' losses and result in some people making money and some people losing money.


--------------------
AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: qman]
    #19260229 -

qman said:
What do you believe gives the Bitcoin its perceived value?  Encryption?



Thats certainly part of it.

I think its like presidental elections often are in the US.  A vote for candidate A is more a vote against candiate B than it is for A.  In this case, a vote for BitCoin is more a vote against the dollar/euro/yen than it is a vote for bitcoin.

I think its been speculated so high because it has outperformed almost everybody's expectations.  It has survived speculative busts, it has survived technical glitches, it survived the closing of the silk road and its scope has only increased.  Its not going anywhere and people know that.  Of course bitcoin could function just as well if it was worth a penny a piece rather than a thousand a piece.  But right now "regular" people (non-enthusiasts) are waking up to the reality that BitCoin is not a scheme and is actually very technically innovative and useful.  So all of their dumb money has flooded into the market raising prices.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Bitcoin: a revolutionary new kind of wealth disparity? [Re: s240779]
    #19260237 -

Da2ra said:
Similar in a less direct sense. Both a Ponzi scheme and the stock/currency markets profit from other peoples' losses and result in some people making money and some people losing money.


Thats retarded.  Just because you can lose money at it doesn't make it a ponzi scheme.  That just makes it risky.  Yes, buying a bitcoin today at around its highest price ever is risky.  Nobody really claims otherwise.

Also, other people need not lose for profit to be made.  Its not a zero sum game.

Edited by DieCommie (12/11/13 03:50 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 |  [ show all ]

Shop: North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   MagicBag.co Certified Organic All-In-One Grow Bags by Magic Bag   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy

Community > The Pub
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Income disparity. What effects does it have really?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )		 Patlal 4,600 149 05/07/15 05:27 AM
by zZZz
* Wealth inequality in America. Its much worse than most people imagine
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )		 Patlal 4,861 142 06/10/13 09:42 AM
by imachavel
* Is bitcoin still a thing? Shiithead 961 19 04/21/15 01:14 PM
by el_barto
* What Does It Take To Mine Bitcoin? FeedingMyDreams 554 18 12/24/17 09:58 PM
by LogicaL Chaos
* Time to revisit the current state of bitcoin
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 Nifflerz 1,522 78 05/25/17 03:26 AM
by Mickalopagus
* Wealth Inequality in America
( 1 2 3 4 ... 18 19 )		 kr0nik0 11,666 374 03/20/13 11:55 PM
by Sophistic Radiance
* Bitcoins Price Drop WTF!?
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )		 LSDreams 10,288 145 06/09/15 03:04 AM
by s240779
* Bitcoin has breached the $7000 level
( 1 2 3 all )		 trendalM 2,186 58 11/02/17 07:50 AM
by howsyournaggerdoin

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
2,304 topic views. 10 members, 607 guests and 198 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.033 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 18 queries.