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OfflineNova

Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 1,365
Last seen: 5 years, 7 months
Re: Income disparity. What effects does it have really? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21646156 - 05/06/15 08:58 PM (8 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Ok let me put it into something you might easily relate too. There's approximately 3.5 million professional drivers in the US. The overhead to maintain each individual driver is around 60,000 plus benefits, and lost productivity through sick days and accidents. Put up against a computer that never tires and never fucks up any business out there would be insane to maintain a fleet of human drivers. Do you think it's a good idea to let business's do as they wish in this situation? Or should the government interfere?




I don't think it's a choice. We can pretend that we choose to not use the A-bomb but the technology is already there so its here whether we like it or not.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
CS actual
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
Re: Income disparity. What effects does it have really? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21646178 - 05/06/15 09:03 PM (8 years, 9 months ago)

Companies need employees to run a company and their interest is the company.  It's not their responsibility to make 3.5 million more jobs, they'll only do it if they need them.  No one should interfere.  It's called capitalism.


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Income disparity. What effects does it have really? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21646195 - 05/06/15 09:05 PM (8 years, 9 months ago)

well how are you gonna stop it? make it only ok for some people to something, and other people to do other's, and supplicate only the plenty and not the few?

the people with the money make things happen. if you take that away, then you make civilized societies smaller. what you need is better laws for government agency for worker's AND businesses.

not for people who do nothing.

make your own businesses, and make it relevant. then survive off that. then whom ever makes their investments can drive their businesses through the roof, in cooperation, and make their own super chains, or even markets (look at the toy market), and then when people are more communicative with their ideals and more conservative with their spending, they can give to funds for certain business owners, so they can make their businesses grow.

that is how it works.


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*
Other

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan Flag
Re: Income disparity. What effects does it have really? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21646221 - 05/06/15 09:10 PM (8 years, 9 months ago)

Well enjoy living in a society full of jobless welfare recipients and the homeless. I'm sure the economy will be absolutely fucking booming when automation phases out millions of workers.


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Income disparity. What effects does it have really? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21646230 - 05/06/15 09:12 PM (8 years, 9 months ago)

automation will make available vast amounts more of resources for our human masters.  :bowdown:


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InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*
Other

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan Flag
Re: Income disparity. What effects does it have really? [Re: akira_akuma]
    #21646236 - 05/06/15 09:14 PM (8 years, 9 months ago)

And I'm absolutely positive vast amounts if it will trickle down to the common man.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 29,591
Re: Income disparity. What effects does it have really? [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #21646240 - 05/06/15 09:15 PM (8 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Well enjoy living in a society full of jobless welfare recipients and the homeless.



Welcome to America (except in america basic needs aren't met)


--------------------
L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs


Edited by Cognitive_Shift (05/06/15 09:23 PM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ

Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
Re: Income disparity. What effects does it have really? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #21646247 - 05/06/15 09:16 PM (8 years, 9 months ago)

seriously, Canada and USA should just trade values for awhile. Convexity!


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Invisiblekoraks
Registered: 06/02/03
Posts: 26,691
Re: Income disparity. What effects does it have really? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21647335 - 05/07/15 01:50 AM (8 years, 9 months ago)

Zappa, thanks for acknowledging the thoughtfulness of my post. I should point out that my responding specifically to your posts in threads like these doesn't mean I intend to troll you, you just trigger me to debate complex issues. That's a good thing.

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Koraks has a problem with income from capital.  I find that childish.  Where do you think every pension fund earns its income?  Pension funds for working mutts he think he is championing.  Unbalances the economy?  Is there a disturbance in the force?  The unbalance in the economy is due to the government



Well, I have no problem with income from capital. I think we agree that income from capital is a necessary factor in a market economy as it helps to nurture entrepreneurship as it makes it attractive to invest capital and thereby stimulate the economy. But like I pointed out, I do have a problem with too large a disparity between income from capital and income from labor. Not because I'm envious (although that argument is certainly valid for many people) but because I think it indeed exerts a negative influence on the economy at large. You can imagine two groups in an economy: the people who depend on income from capital and those who depend on income from labor. The former group is by definition relatively wealthy, which acts as a stimulus for the other group to try and join the first group (in that sense, envy is actually a stimulus for economic growth!) However, if the income from labor lags so far behind on income from capital, the mechanism for moving upwards from one group to the other becomes dysfunctional and at some point, it simply ceases to work, i.e. people are no longer stimulated to invest their time and effort into economic growth as they will feel the returns do not justify the investment.

The matter is made worse if the relatively (disparately) large income from capital is the effect of financial trickery that doesn't help the economy at large. This is probably where our opinions differ the most, as I take it that you feel that as long as one acts within the law, it doesn't matter how someone makes money. If it's by making up financial products that effectively rely on inflating capital out of thin air, then that's fine from a very liberal viewpoint. But I personally believe that in the long run, this poses a threat to society and the economy and therefore market forces need to be regulated so that the allocation of capital does benefit the economy at large. The essential difference between our views (as I understand it; correct me if I'm wrong) is that you believe that private capital should remain uninfluenced by the state, while I believe that indirectly (through carefully drafted laws and regulations by a democratically chosen and well-functioning government) there should be some degree of public control even over private capital. It should be limited, but it should be there, and I would say for the good of the parties that possess this capital, as even they won't benefit from a breakdown of the economy and society.

So I think it's a very fundamental difference in opinion on how a government is positioned vis-a-vis the economy; you may call me a socialist (fine by me; I wouldn't self-apply that label, but in comparison with you, I could see your point), but I would argue that I'm only concerned with protecting the boundary conditions that are needed for a market to work, given that like everything in life, the market just isn't perfect and needs to be managed in some way. We will probably never entirely agree on this, although I feel we don't disagree as much as it may seem on the mechanisms that are at work.

Anyway, I've had my say and I see I start repeating myself; thanks for triggering me in the right way. This was one of our best altercations yet, I think.


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InvisiblezZZz
jesus
I'm a teapot User Gallery

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 33,478
Re: Income disparity. What effects does it have really? [Re: Patlal]
    #21647550 - 05/07/15 03:27 AM (8 years, 9 months ago)

u had me at ted.

btw y didnt u just say inequality?, or did disparity sound smarter?..

anyway when is inequality, or 'disparity', ever a good thing?..


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