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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: koods]
    #18362619 -

It is seen as a mystical experience by many. No need to shit on people's parades with a materialist viewpoint of reality.

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: Aedan]
    #18362694 -

There is no need to load biochemical processes with supernatural properties.

And... the OP asked a question, but I guess you don't like some people's answers.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: Aedan]
    #18362710 -

I agree with Koods, he could probably state what I'm about to try to much more eloquently but..when I first did acid I was shocked and amazed because the concept of how we process sensory information was really, really driven home - what your brain sees in it's day to day life is not in anyway, shape or form necessarily the true nature of the world/universe/muti-verse. That made it a very special and beautiful experience for me, I would say acid as a whole has helped me come to terms with death, helped me through the grieving process, and instilled a deep sense of comfort about everything concerning what happens to us after we die, in general. I wouldn't call it spiritual per say, but that doesn't mean it was any less special to me, even that simple revelation in and of itself has changed the way I view the world forever.


--------------------
Mama, here comes Midnight, with a dead Moon in it's jaws.

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: koods]
    #18362828 -

koods said:
DMT is neither life nor death. It is a chemical that disrupts the normal sensory inputs and processing. There is nothing mystical about it... No more spiritual than the disruption of pain when you get a shot of lidocaine or the sensation of heat when you put hot peppers in your mouth.


what is chemicals? what is pain? what is sensory processing? what is sensation? is there something about these things that seems completely ordinary to you? perhaps taking dmt makes these things seem unordinary, whereas they usually seem ordinary during our normal sober day-to-day lives. the point is, it's not that one is fake and the other is real. they are both legitimate experience, and just because one makes you see things differently, doesn't make it in any way invalid. for this reason no one should be dismissive of any of this


--------------------
ONE-EYED WANT
-------------------------
knock a hoe out this dimension, continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie
rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, shLong, ModestMouse, vinsue, big worm (sketch), tim

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: Envix]
    #18362843 -

Envix said:
koods said:
DMT is neither life nor death. It is a chemical that disrupts the normal sensory inputs and processing. There is nothing mystical about it... No more spiritual than the disruption of pain when you get a shot of lidocaine or the sensation of heat when you put hot peppers in your mouth.


what is chemicals? what is pain? what is sensory processing? what is sensation? is there something about these things that seems completely ordinary to you? perhaps taking dmt makes these things seem unordinary, whereas they usually seem ordinary during our normal sober day-to-day lives. the point is, it's not that one is fake and the other is real. they are both legitimate experience, and just because one makes you see things differently, doesn't make it in any way invalid. for this reason no one should be dismissive of any of this


Validity is a property of arguments. I think that the sensory experiences had under the influence of drugs that disrupt your normal brain activity are misleading with respect to what is true.

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: morrowasted]
    #18362868 -

if it exists, how is it not true? if it is a part of reality, then what part of it makes it not a part of reality?

with respect to reality and its all-encompassing nature, who are you to draw the boundaries between what is real and what is not?

i can say there is a duck in my room playing the trombone. how can you tell me that is not real?

ducks are real, and trombones are real. the situation is something which arises through processes which string together other events in order to make a particular event occur.

since all events occur in the mind, then everything defined as an event is a subject interpretation of said event.

to break it down into simple terms, anything that is imagined has a basis in reality, simply because it is imagined, and imagination is very much a part of reality.

you can take this logic, and apply it to the psychedelic experience, saying that the skewed-perception of the event is no more real or fake than the sober-perception of the same event, or the same event viewed through the eyes of a frog or a cat. every experience can be perceived in an infinite number of ways. rather, it has the potential to be viewed/processed/interpreted in an infinite number of ways. no one way is any more or less real than any other.


--------------------
ONE-EYED WANT
-------------------------
knock a hoe out this dimension, continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie
rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, shLong, ModestMouse, vinsue, big worm (sketch), tim

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: Brethus]
    #18362875 -

it's a sin to ask because you already know


--------------------



"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: koods]
    #18362876 -

You are entitled to your own opinion I don't have a problem with that. But I believe a purely materialist view is superficial and does little to explain the nature of consiousness and subjective experience which a mystical view is rooted in. Dmt is a physical means of producing a subjective experience. Dmt can give you insight into the nature of reality by altering your perception.

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: Envix]
    #18362889 -

Envix said:
if it exists, how is it not true? if it is a part of reality, then what part of it makes it not a part of reality?


I'm not saying that distorted (or non distorted) perceptual experiences aren't part of reality, but I am saying that there are certain perceptual outputs that are more spatio-temporally 'accurate' or at least more conducive to meaningful/productive interaction.

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: Aedan]
    #18362904 -

"this is what happened when my brain was on DMT"
"this is what happened when my brain was on CRACK"
"this is what happened when my brain was on DOPAMINE"
"this is what happened when my brain was on MMJ"
"this is what happened when my brain was on ADRENALINE"
"this is what happened when my brain was on MELATONIN"

basically, everything u experience has a basis somewhere in CHEMICALS, whether they be endogenous or from the external world. just because you put something from out there, into here, doesn't make the experience any less real than if the chemicals came directly from your own body


--------------------
ONE-EYED WANT
-------------------------
knock a hoe out this dimension, continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie
rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, shLong, ModestMouse, vinsue, big worm (sketch), tim

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: morrowasted]
    #18362919 -

morrowasted said:
Envix said:
if it exists, how is it not true? if it is a part of reality, then what part of it makes it not a part of reality?


I'm not saying that distorted (or non distorted) perceptual experiences aren't part of reality, but I am saying that there are certain perceptual outputs that are more spatio-temporally 'accurate' or at least more conducive to meaningful/productive interaction.


i agree with this. and in fact, i've actually had the greatest "bonding experiences" or "conducive interactions" while under the influences of mind-altering chemicals.

although they may distort ordinary perception and processing mechanisms, i don't think they should be deemed as "fake" or "less-real". i just think it should be called what it is: "altered states of consciousness"


--------------------
ONE-EYED WANT
-------------------------
knock a hoe out this dimension, continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie
rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, shLong, ModestMouse, vinsue, big worm (sketch), tim

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: morrowasted]
    #18362920 -

Quote:
since all events occur in the mind, then everything defined as an event is a subject interpretation of said event.


But it is another step to say that one subject's interpretation cannot be more true or accurate than another's.

You should look into semiotics. Mental representations of things are part of reality, but they only become significant parts of it when someone attempts to share them with someone else using some kind of language. All categorical distinctions are language-bound, but it is a mistake to believe that thoughts are language-bound; they're not. That your perception of a cat is informed by your understanding of the semantic content of the word cat does not mean that if you lacked such a semantic framework and saw the same cat, you would have a different immediate perceptual experience.

Things can certainly be perceived a number of different ways. If we are taking into consideration the possibility that things travelling at near the speed of light are communicating with us, then we would need to address the relativity of perspective and its relation to the truth-bearing property of propositions more closely, but as long as humans are in roughly the same place at roughly the same time moving at roughly the same speed, these relativistic considerations can be ignored.

edit: Check out Umberto Ecco



And this

Edited by morrowasted (06/03/13 03:01 PM)

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: morrowasted]
    #18362937 -

Things live and die, history repeats itself, circle of life etc etc. There was nothing before I was born, and I think there will be nothing after my death.

I think humans think too highly of themselves, There are living things on this earth much more complicated than we are and yet nobody speaks of them... but ask about where HUMANS go when they die, you get 1 million + answers.

Ever step on a bug? We are those bugs as well, there just isn't other living things in abundance around us that can squash us at will. But when you do get 'squashed' You will realize how small and insignificant you really are.

1.78 deaths per second
107 deaths per minute
6,390 deaths per hour
153,000 deaths per day
56.0 million deaths per year
3.9 billion deaths per average lifetime (70 years)

If you accept certain facts of history, there have been 108ish billion people on this earth up until around 2011. this number is probably grossly under the real figure.

Imagine the line at "Heavens Gate". At that rate over time.. You would be waiting a looooooooooong time AFTER the extinction of human beings to get in. Of course I'm just joking about heavens gate. However I personally don't want to be ANYWHERE where there are 100+billion being around me at any given moment.

I seen on discovery or some shit about a living thing that is "reborn" after its lifecycle, Thats all I remember though, how do the hardcores explain that one :P

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: morrowasted]
    #18362945 -

i agree with all of that too. in fact, as you approach the speed of light, time would slow down from your perspective. however, if you happen to be traveling AT the speed of light, time would not exist anymore. this is because everything is measured with the speed of light as a basis of measurement ITSELF. if you were traveling at the speed of light, all events would be occurring simultaneously, and you would be existing at all points in space and time. when time is created, it is due to a dropping of vibration and density at a certain point in time and space (black hole). the speed of light is lowered to such a degree, it create lower-vibrational forms of energy i.e. matter such as chemicals and molecules. this allows for the perception of time to take place, in order so that everything doesn't happen all at once. this allows us to perceive the very inner-workings and processes of life itself (from the inside).

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: zpores]
    #18362947 -

If you came back to a place like this one, you wouldn't really notice all the abundance of life anymore than you already do.

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18362971 -

When we die, we simply become part of the collective.  Not individually cognitive, just part of a whole.  It.

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: memes]
    #18362980 -

meams said:
When we die, we simply become part of the collective.  Not individually cognitive, just part of a whole.  It.


does that mean you become a tree or maybe a burrito from Chipotle or perhaps Taco Bell (their open till 4am some places)


--------------------



"I am the Highest Power the leader of the pack"

Actiavte My Dream Sequence Machine

GOD of the hologram earth

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: UnholyChild666]
    #18362990 -

UnholyChild666 said:
meams said:
When we die, we simply become part of the collective.  Not individually cognitive, just part of a whole.  It.


does that mean you become a tree or maybe a burrito from Chipotle or perhaps Taco Bell (their open till 4am some places)


yes, consciousness can travel anywhere without a body. however, "anywhere" and "everywhere" are not distinguishable without a body also


--------------------
ONE-EYED WANT
-------------------------
knock a hoe out this dimension, continue my ascension
-bhad bhabie
rip. todcasil, acid sloth, st1llnox, shLong, ModestMouse, vinsue, big worm (sketch), tim

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: Envix]
    #18362995 -

I like to pretend I believe in Spinozan Pantheism

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Re: Where do you think we go when we die? [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18362999 -

If there is anything that psychedelics taught me its that I can't trust my senses to give me an accurate depiction of reality. In eastern philosophy there is the concept of maya that means "illusion" which is basically what we perceive as normal everyday reality. It is a construct of the mind. Maya is the veil that prevents us from seeing the true nature of reality.

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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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