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Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano
    #17536514 -

I want to learn/teach myself piano.  I don't have space and money for piano.  Hence, naturally I'm looking at 88-key keyboards to fill the void.

Here are my requirements:
-88 keys, I want the jimi piano experience
-headphone capability so I can play without disturbing my roommates
-relatively cheap, simple since I'm a beginner

Yeah, that's about it.  Recommendations for keyboard purchasing greatly appreciated as well as advice for learning piano by self-instruction.  :smile2:


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Delicious Pizza

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Society]
    #17584000 -

Ahem.


Bump.


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Delicious Pizza

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Society]
    #17584388 -

I wouldn't try to learn piano on a keyboard - they're very different animals (for all their similarities).

I'd say if you're wanting to learn piano to buy a second hand electric piano - Clavinovas are very good IMO.  Something like this maybe?  Providing you buy a bit smart, you'll get your money back on one of these if you ever decide to give it up.

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Society]
    #17584398 -

to be honest, craigslist has the most cheap and used pianos for good prices. Check around the listings and you should be able to find one for $75-$100


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    And when I see you coming down the line
    With eyes wide open
    Somewhere in between the past and future
    Where you drift in time
    And you can see a different point of view


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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Guy1980]
    #17584722 -

As I stated in the OP, I don't have the space for a full piano.  Even that electric piano looks too big.  A keyboard seems preferable for its easy storage.

Guy1980 said:
I wouldn't try to learn piano on a keyboard - they're very different animals (for all their similarities).



What are the main differences?


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Delicious Pizza

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Society]
    #17585030 -

if you get a good enough keyboard, like a stage piano, then there shouldn't be a major difference. Cheap keyboards tend not to have weighted or only slightly-weighted keys, so it's really easy to accidently press down on a key, and it's harder to get the right tone. Plus keyboards have what's known as a polyphony, where it's a bunch of tones from pianos combined into, so it sounds more full of a sound.

if you need any help :pm: me


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    And when I see you coming down the line
    With eyes wide open
    Somewhere in between the past and future
    Where you drift in time
    And you can see a different point of view


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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Society]
    #17585172 -

The big difference is the mechanics of the keys themselves.  A piano key operates a hammer via pivots and levers and such.  The way you hit the key controls the sound out of the instrument.

Electric pianos try to replicate this with weighted keys (and sensitivity to the way you press the key).  The action of the keys feels very much like a piano (to a novice like me anyway - I'm sure a concert pianist would have their reservations).

A cheap keyboard essentially just has on/off keys, you press C and a C tone comes out.  You might get a better keyboard which has sensitivity to key pressure/speed, but it's a different thing entirely to a piano.

I suppose I'm over analysing this, if you're starting from scratch then any keyboard will enable you to learn a lot.

As a general buying advice for instruments - I always go for a quality name. 

The difference in quality between an instrument manufacturer (like Fender, Gibson, Korg etc.) and budget brands is immense.  It might mean spending 2x what you planned, but you'll get 10x the instrument.  If you're on a budget, it's better to buy a good second hand instrument than a shitty new one.  Good instruments hold their value.

What kind of music are you wanting to make?  And what's your budget?

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Guy1980]
    #17591643 -

Thanks for the advice, fellas.  Very helpful as I know very little about instruments.  Do most keyboards have headphone ports or the ability to use headphones in some fashion (don't want to disturb roommates)?

Guy1980 said:
If you're starting from scratch then any keyboard will enable you to learn a lot.



This is really what it comes down to: I'm a total novice to music.  I played a small keyboard for a year or so.... probably around 20 years ago.  I have an inkling of knowledge about reading music, but that's about it.

So really, I just would like to get the basics down so that, say year from now, when I have more space, I can buy a regular/electric piano.

Quote:
What kind of music are you wanting to make?  And what's your budget?


Nothing yet, just want to learn how to read music and function on an 88 key platform.  As for budget, I was assuming I'd be able to find something under $200 without huge expectations for quality.


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Delicious Pizza

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Society]
    #17595865 -

I think an electric keyboard without a headphone socket would be a rare thing, so you should be good on that front.

Other than that, since you're just after getting into the basics, I'd say just get any decent brand keyboard.  The Yamaha PSR-E233 seems reasonable and is cheap enough.

Have fun! :smile:

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Guy1980]
    #17597896 -

Make sure it is advertized as a Digital Piano

They're on craigslist every once in a while, and last I checked Guitar Center had one on sale for like 400 bucks, a lower end yamaha.

I would recommend NOT getting the PSR-E233 because the action (weight) of the keys and the sound will just be fucking awful. It's worth the extra money to AT LEAST buy a used digital piano.


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Burt Cocaine

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: shaggyp]
    #17600643 -

shaggyp said:
Make sure it is advertized as a Digital Piano

They're on craigslist every once in a while, and last I checked Guitar Center had one on sale for like 400 bucks, a lower end yamaha.


OP's already said he wouldn't have room for a piano, digital or otherwise.

Quote:
shaggyp said:I would recommend NOT getting the PSR-E233 because the action (weight) of the keys and the sound will just be fucking awful. It's worth the extra money to AT LEAST buy a used digital piano.


OP is a complete novice, and has stated he doesn't really have a plan of what/how he wants to play.  Better to get a cheap and cheerful little keyboard IMO, after playing that for a few months he'll have more of an idea on whether he want's to progress to a  Bechstein or a Moog (or put it in the cupboard of abandoned hobbies).

I agree with you, if Piano is your aim, a second hand electric piano is the best bet, and it's always better to spend a bit, but OP says no to that idea.

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Guy1980]
    #17600673 -

Guy1980 said:
OP's already said he wouldn't have room for a piano, digital or otherwise.




With all due respect, he didn't say that. Digital pianos come in much smaller sizes than full pianos (No need for a soundboard, weighting adds negligible bulk over an unweighted keyboard). He also said he wanted an 88 key, which means that he's already looking for something full length.

I use a yamaha p-95 digital piano. I assure you, they don't make anything smaller than that for 88 keys. It's small enough to lug around in a case and uses a standard keyboard stand. Runs 400-500 new.

I know that's a big investment for someone just starting, but there are 3 advantages:

1. Cheap Yamaha PSR keyboards just sound bad, it makes playing not fun. It's easier to pick up an instrument when you enjoy practicing.

2. Craigslist. You can get away with spending less and still get a nice sounding instrument if you research the brands a little.

3. A digital piano will hold its value better. If you buy for 400, and don't like it, it's not hard to sell a p-95 for 300 bucks. 100 dollar loss, same as the cost of a shit PSR that nobody will want to buy from you ever.


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Burt Cocaine

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: shaggyp]
    #17600688 -

I'm just saying this from my experiences trying to start on cheap guitars/keyboards (I used to have a PSR, I know what it's like). It's just very discouraging, not as fun, and you don't progress as fast.

That's why I'm recommending a low-end Digital Piano. A $3000 instrument is too expensive for a beginner, but a $99 keyboard sounds and feels more like a child's toy. Hit the middle ground and get an affordable adult instrument, you won't regret it.


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Burt Cocaine

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: shaggyp]
    #17600708 -

shaggyp said:
Guy1980 said:
OP's already said he wouldn't have room for a piano, digital or otherwise.




With all due respect, he didn't say that.


OP said:
As I stated in the OP, I don't have the space for a full piano.  Even that electric piano looks too big.


I've pretty much made every point you have to OP (digital piano, better action, better instrument, holds value, worth the extra), so I'm not sure why you're telling me what I didn't ask and already said.

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Guy1980]
    #17600719 -

shaggyp said:
I'm just saying this from my experiences trying to start on cheap guitars/keyboards (I used to have a PSR, I know what it's like). It's just very discouraging, not as fun, and you don't progress as fast.

That's why I'm recommending a low-end Digital Piano. A $3000 instrument is too expensive for a beginner, but a $99 keyboard sounds and feels more like a child's toy. Hit the middle ground and get an affordable adult instrument, you won't regret it.


I totally agree with you, in fact in post seven I said
Guy1980 said:
As a general buying advice for instruments - I always go for a quality name. 

The difference in quality between an instrument manufacturer (like Fender, Gibson, Korg etc.) and budget brands is immense.  It might mean spending 2x what you planned, but you'll get 10x the instrument.  If you're on a budget, it's better to buy a good second hand instrument than a shitty new one.  Good instruments hold their value.



We both know that OP will be better served with a proper instrument over a toy.  However, OP has his reasons for not wanting to go this route, so instead of trying to force him I suggested the Yamaha keyboard as it seems to be what he wants, and it's not an expensive mistake to make.

Whatever he buys, if he wants to play piano, he's going to have to buy a piano at some point.  If he won't start on a good second hand one, might as well get the cheapest functional one until he's more sure of what he wants.

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Guy1980]
    #17605953 -

OP, check craigslist for your area. They always have good deals. Send us the links and we can tell you if they're good or bad and if they're the right price


--------------------

    And when I see you coming down the line
    With eyes wide open
    Somewhere in between the past and future
    Where you drift in time
    And you can see a different point of view


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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: jammin]
    #17631031 -

Just checked out a bunch of keyboards at a local music store. I was impressed, but not with the prices.  They were mostly Casio and Yamaha.

They had a good number with weighted keys and boards with different sounds based on your level of compression.


The plot thickens.

:cookiemonster:


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Delicious Pizza

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Society]
    #17631122 -

stay away from casios, they're not really the best.

keep on looking at yamaha, and also take a look into kurzweils and rolands...if you're looking for quality


--------------------

    And when I see you coming down the line
    With eyes wide open
    Somewhere in between the past and future
    Where you drift in time
    And you can see a different point of view


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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: jammin]
    #17631167 -

So basically, if I want the piano experience, aka digital piano, I'm looking to spend around $500, eh?

This seems like the cheapest digital piano on the market:

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Williams-Allegro-88-Key-Digital-Piano-106063399-i1551911.gc

I'm assuming most of you won't have anything nice to say about it other than it's cheap and probably decent for the basics.


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Delicious Pizza

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Re: Buying a keyboard- want to learn to play piano [Re: Society]
    #17631422 -

that price range is pretty accurate. I'm still saying to check out craigslist. You can get one of those quality $500+ keyboards for around $250 if you look hard enough.


But from what I can see from the scarce specifications, it seems like a decent piano. The hammer action keys is definitely a plus. I checked out youtube to here people playing on it and it sounds alright for the price. Like I said though, try craigslist


--------------------

    And when I see you coming down the line
    With eyes wide open
    Somewhere in between the past and future
    Where you drift in time
    And you can see a different point of view


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