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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: SoreSpore]
    #17421658 -

SoreSpore said:
daz01 said:
methamphatmine = ice, crack.


:orly:


I assume he meant crank.


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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: EllisDSox] * 1
    #17421661 -

EllisDSox said:
Quote:
MDMA and ecstasy aren't the same anywhere.


Maybe now some people use this to refer to the alleged "designer drug" consisting of cocktail pills


More confusion! "Designer drug" was a term coined to refer to novel synthetic drugs. It does not refer to a cocktail that a dealer throws together. The "design" refers to the synthesis. The term is interchangeable with "research chemical." So, soemone notices that MDMA is a derivative of an existing, well established drug (meth), and they come up with the term "designer drug."


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: SoreSpore]
    #17421665 -

No worries, matey. Not like you raged or anything. I just realised I was triggering a debate on something totally arbitrary even by pub standards.

24077- "Designer drug", in my experience, is a completely bull shit scare term used mostly by uninformed media outlets. I wasn't implying that random concoctions in pills justify this label. I realise the better usage means things deliberately synthesised so as to dodge the law.


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Disclaimer: If you have any kind of heart condition, my posts are not for you. You could literally die from reading the first couple of words in any one of them. Scroll down the page, live your life and prosper, but don't read my posts because your heart will probably explode. I am not joking.

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: s240779]
    #17421674 -

240779 said:
EllisDSox said:
Quote:
MDMA and ecstasy aren't the same anywhere.


Maybe now some people use this to refer to the alleged "designer drug" consisting of cocktail pills


More confusion! "Designer drug" was a term coined to refer to novel synthetic drugs. It does not refer to a cocktail that a dealer throws together. The "design" refers to the synthesis. The term is interchangeable with "research chemical." So, soemone notices that MDMA is a derivative of an existing, well established drug (meth), and they come up with the term "designer drug."


If I remember correctly the term designer drug came out in the early 80's when people where synthesizing fentanyl analogues to bypass the laws.


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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: pkoomer]
    #17421751 -

MDMA is what ecstasy is supposed to be.Ecstasy most often has MDMA and other crap in the pill.MDMA doesn't have meth but ecstasy might.Never tried meth.


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:cosmicpony: :raveface:

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: MushingOut]
    #17421767 -

MushingOut said:
MDMA is what ecstasy is supposed to be.Ecstasy most often has MDMA and other crap in the pill.MDMA doesn't have meth but ecstasy might.Never tried meth.


You should read the thread before reiterating nearly every discrepancy just addressed.

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: SoreSpore]
    #17421785 -

morrowasted said:
Quote:
Ecstasy refers to the pill form of MDMA (or MXE) which constitutes other adulterants to be used.

wtf


haha yeah what the fuck?


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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: SoreSpore] * 2
    #17421925 -

The confusion here is coming from nomenclature.  Whenever a person uses the molecular acronym to refer to a street product, confusion arises over whether or not that name refers to the product or the molecule purported to be contained by that product.

The slang term "Ecstasy" refers to a molecule: 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methamphetamine.  The acronym for this molecule is MDMA, in the same way that the acronym for acetylsalicylic acid (Aspirin) is "ASA".  The slang term "ecstasy" is correctly used to refer to any product, whether it is in pill or powder form, purported to contain the MDMA molecule.

3,4-MethyleneDioxy-N-MethAmphetamine

AcetylSalicyclic Acid

The acronym "MDMA" is correctly used to refer to a molecule, but it is also sometimes used to refer to a product.  This is where confusion arises.  A molecule is not a product; it is a molecule.  A product is a pressed pill or bag of powder purported to contain a molecule, in this case MDMA, the molecule responsible for all the subjective effects which earned it the nomenclature "Ecstasy", among other names.

Now, products sold on the street can be virtually anything, and they can be called virtually anything.  This is because street drugs are a totally unregulated marketplace, and we all know what happens when you mix capitalism with an unregulated marketplace.  A pill sold as "Ecstasy" can contain virtually anything.  A bag of powder sold as "MDMA" can contain virtually anything.  Both the pill and the powder, however, are sold to the user under at least the pretense of containing 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methamphetamine, or MDMA.

You may have noticed that the name 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methamphetamine also contains the word "methamphetamine".  Although the name does contain the word "methamphetamine", "MDMA" by itself does not contain methamphetamine.  The product sold as MDMA may contain methamphetamine as an adulterant--and in fact this is quite common--but the molecule itself is, like all molecules, stand-alone.  It has its own properties.  It does not contain any other substance any more than the sulphuric acid molecule (H2SO4) contains water (H2O).

With that said, MDMA and Methamphetamine do share some common ground when it comes to their subjective effects.  This has to do with their similarities in structure.  There is no such thing as a pure, unadulterated MDMA product that is "more methy" as compared to a product which is less so.  This has to do with the balance of stereoisomers achieved during synthesis and is another matter entirely.

See for yourself:



Erowid's chem-compare utility is enormously useful.

Edit because I love chemistry, and for those who are interested:

How to read a molecular name:

The molecule pictured above and on the left: its central ring has positions, each of which is referred to by a corresponding number.  On the end of each of them are hydrogen atoms.  On the 3rd and 4th positions are oxygen atoms (in red).  These are called substitutions, because hydrogen has been substituted with oxygen. "Di" stands for "two"; two oxygen atoms.  Taken together with the presence and orientation of the hydrogen and carbon atoms to their left, it is called a methylenedioxy group.  The methylenedioxy group is attached to the big ring structure, called a cyclohexane ring.  But because so many molecules in organic chemistry have this ring, it is usually referred to as "N", rather than pronouncing "cyclohexa" all the time.  Attached to the 1st position of "N" is the amine.  The term "amine" refers to any organic compound which comes from modifying ammonia.  This particular configuration is called an "amphet"amine.  The tripod shaped group of hydrogen and carbon atoms stuck to the nitrogen atom on the far end of the amine is called a methyl group.  An amphetamine molecule with a methyl group added to it is thereby called a methamphetamine molecule.

And so you can understand a molecule by reading it from left to right, just like reading a sentence.  3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methamphetamine.  What's so wonderful and fascinating about learning how to do this is that once you get the hang of it, whenever you read these molecular names, a picture of what the molecule looks like forms in your mind just like you're reading a book.  It's like magic.  And then you learn about what kind of configurations produce what kind of subjective effects, such that you can get a sense for what a molecule you've never ingested before might feel like, which is another kind of magic.  And then you ingest the molecule and find out what the real magic is!

 


Edited by Ped (12/20/12 03:04 PM)

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: Ped]
    #17421953 -

Also have to watch out for that dimethyltryptamine, that shit will rot your teeth and make it feel like you have spiders in your anus.


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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: The Vapor] * 1
    #17422073 -

And you'd think that with all the methane that comes out the back of cows, they would all be running around like crazy instead of just standing in one spot with their heads down all the time.  Then again, perhaps that's why they seem so focused...

Meth-addled cows: the dirty secret behind lean ground beef.

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: Ped]
    #17422086 -

:ilold:

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: SoreSpore]
    #17422105 -

Ecstasy is slang for MDMA... When this stuff first came out it was pressed in pills with nothing but binder as far as I know. Saying Ecstasy contains other drugs is like saying acid contains 25i-nBome. Just isn't right. You may get shitty "ecstasy pills" cut with other stuff, but if it isn't MDMA (not sure if it extends to close analogues) it isn't technically ecstasy.

That's my take on it.

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: JacksonMetaller]
    #17422612 -

:facepalm3:

Always w this!

it's

3,4-MethyleneDioxy-N-MethylAmphetamine


I know, you are going to quote me and tell me I'm wrong and link me to Erowid.

So we will skip that step and I will link you to

PiHKAL #109 MDMA.

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: indocult]
    #17422652 -

Right, and methamphetamine is N-methylamphetamine. They are both identical aside from the extra methylenedioxy ring in MDMA. You could even go so far as to say that MDMA is a methamphetamine, just as it is an amphetamine. Obviously MDMA and methamphetamine are very different drugs though.

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: pkoomer]
    #17422694 -

Ecstasy is the nickname for MDMA. Everyone knows that. Even Erowid says so:
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/mdma/mdma.shtml

If your ecstasy is impure, contaminated, or adulterated, you should find a new source.

Edited by nooneman (12/20/12 05:21 PM)

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: SoreSpore]
    #17422721 -

SoreSpore said:
Word.

I apologize for having acted so high and mighty on a very subjective topic; especially in relation to slang.


It's not subjective whatsoever.

Meth = speed, crank, ice.  You can vape ("smoke") it, it's typically sold in a crystalline/powder form.  It's what Walt makes in Breaking Bad.

MDMA = Ecstasy.  They're the exact same thing.  Some people erroneously think that rolls/tabs/pressies/pressed pills are called 'ecstasy' while molly is called MDMA.  This is false; 'ecstasy' is a slang term for MDMA.  Because when you take it, it puts you in a state of... you guessed it:  Ecstasy!

To add to the confusion, there's also MDA which has slightly different effects than MDMA.  It's usually a little more brownish in color in its purest form and I've heard the slang term "mandy" used to describe it.  MDA is a step or two away from MDMA in the synthesis and some chemists just stop there and sell the MDA as MDMA.  The best is a combo of the two.  Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but MDA is a little more psychedelic with emphasis on things like lights and glowsticks, with more stimulation vs. MDMA.  I also think I've read that MDA has a shorter half-life and thus the experience is shorter.

Edited by abltsandwich (12/20/12 05:35 PM)

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: nooneman]
    #17422726 -

No one is selling pure MDMA, no one is selling uncontaminated MDMA.  Even pharmaceuticals have contaminants.


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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: fapjack]
    #17422735 -

fapjack said:
Even pharmaceuticals have contaminants.


So, even LSD synthesized by Sandoz or Shulgin or the best acid chemists has contaminants?


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: s240779] * 1
    #17422742 -

240779 said:
fapjack said:
Even pharmaceuticals have contaminants.


So, even LSD synthesized by Sandoz or Shulgin or the best acid chemists has contaminants?


There is absolutely no such thing as a pure chemical in practice.

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Re: MDMA/ecstasy vs Methamphetamines [Re: abltsandwich]
    #17422745 -

Sounds like a myth to me.


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AI Thread

Northerner said:
I agree psilocybin is smokable though.

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