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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Do you read Howard Zinn?
    #17245973 -

Im about to finish Passionate Declarations its pretty good.  One day last year I read A Power Governments Cannot Suppress in a sitting it was awesome.  This guy is so smart and reasonable most of the time.  It makes everything so clear and he has facts to back it up.  If your looking for some good political reads these have both been good.  I have to read A Peoples History though I watched some of the History Channel special when it came on a couple years ago.


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Bustin caps like Eastwood on crack!!!

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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: bangpowboomers]
    #17245983 -

Read Ayn Rand her works are far superior to anything that commie zinn could ever hope to achieve.


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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #17246029 -

Well I have had Atlas Shrugged for a minute I just havent got around to reading it.  I mean he may have been a communist but as he was talking about in the book I just read if your definition of communism is the Soviet Union your way off.  Or any other "communist"  government in the world today way to tainted to by fascism. As our "democracy" is/has becoming/become.  Thank you for the suggestion I may try to digest that book after I am done with this current one.


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Bustin caps like Eastwood on crack!!!

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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: bangpowboomers]
    #17246153 -

a people's history is probably zinn's best well known book. we even had it in high school american history.

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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: Gilgamesh18] * 3
    #17246177 -

Gilgamesh18 said:
Read Ayn Rand her works are far superior to anything that commie zinn could ever hope to achieve.


Remember that time Ayn Rand got cancer and utilized Medicare so she wouldn't die?

She was such a rugged, self-supporting individual. :hehehe:


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monstermitch's technique to construct a monotob
agar's GRAIN LC
THE OFFICIAL "BEST DEALS" THREAD

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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: Brennus]
    #17246234 -

Funny, I was just thinking about how I need to finally read a peoples' history


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"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 

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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: nicechrisman]
    #17246252 -

Its a great book. reads better then any other admittedly left wing author. Get the newest edition he added stuff up to his death :thumbup:


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I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: bangpowboomers]
    #17246321 -

bangpowboomers said:
Well I have had Atlas Shrugged for a minute I just havent got around to reading it.  I mean he may have been a communist but as he was talking about in the book I just read if your definition of communism is the Soviet Union your way off.  Or any other "communist"  government in the world today way to tainted to by fascism. As our "democracy" is/has becoming/become.  Thank you for the suggestion I may try to digest that book after I am done with this current one.


I would argue that the implementation of left wing policies lead to fascism! The very nature of the communist governments lent themselves to abuses of power by their officials.


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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: bangpowboomers]
    #17246324 -

a peoples history is a great read. I left it in the bathroom and read one story per dump


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Long live kratom :kratom:

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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #17247289 -

Gilgamesh18 said:
bangpowboomers said:
Well I have had Atlas Shrugged for a minute I just havent got around to reading it.  I mean he may have been a communist but as he was talking about in the book I just read if your definition of communism is the Soviet Union your way off.  Or any other "communist"  government in the world today way to tainted to by fascism. As our "democracy" is/has becoming/become.  Thank you for the suggestion I may try to digest that book after I am done with this current one.


I would argue that the implementation of left wing policies lead to fascism! The very nature of the communist governments lent themselves to abuses of power by their officials.



I really don't know how to say this I don't agree I don't think true communism ever really had its day in the sun.  We as citizens have to become more active and that doesn't mean just voting when your supposed to.  You have to have conversations with each other and have a government willing to change with the times not just barrel ahead cause that's the way its always been.  I don't care what type of government you have without participation it lends itself to corruption.


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Bustin caps like Eastwood on crack!!!

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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: bangpowboomers]
    #17247789 -

bangpowboomers said:
Gilgamesh18 said:
bangpowboomers said:
Well I have had Atlas Shrugged for a minute I just havent got around to reading it.  I mean he may have been a communist but as he was talking about in the book I just read if your definition of communism is the Soviet Union your way off.  Or any other "communist"  government in the world today way to tainted to by fascism. As our "democracy" is/has becoming/become.  Thank you for the suggestion I may try to digest that book after I am done with this current one.


I would argue that the implementation of left wing policies lead to fascism! The very nature of the communist governments lent themselves to abuses of power by their officials.



I really don't know how to say this I don't agree I don't think true communism ever really had its day in the sun.  We as citizens have to become more active and that doesn't mean just voting when your supposed to.  You have to have conversations with each other and have a government willing to change with the times not just barrel ahead cause that's the way its always been.  I don't care what type of government you have without participation it lends itself to corruption.


I agree with you that participation is key for the kind of society you want to see. However no political participation was allowed in communist countries because communist states are totalitarian in nature.


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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #17248990 -

Gilgamesh18 said:
bangpowboomers said:
Gilgamesh18 said:
bangpowboomers said:
Well I have had Atlas Shrugged for a minute I just havent got around to reading it.  I mean he may have been a communist but as he was talking about in the book I just read if your definition of communism is the Soviet Union your way off.  Or any other "communist"  government in the world today way to tainted to by fascism. As our "democracy" is/has becoming/become.  Thank you for the suggestion I may try to digest that book after I am done with this current one.


I would argue that the implementation of left wing policies lead to fascism! The very nature of the communist governments lent themselves to abuses of power by their officials.



I really don't know how to say this I don't agree I don't think true communism ever really had its day in the sun.  We as citizens have to become more active and that doesn't mean just voting when your supposed to.  You have to have conversations with each other and have a government willing to change with the times not just barrel ahead cause that's the way its always been.  I don't care what type of government you have without participation it lends itself to corruption.


I agree with you that participation is key for the kind of society you want to see. However no political participation was allowed in communist countries because communist states are totalitarian in nature.


I have to disagree with you that may be the "communist" governments we know famously like the Soviet Union or China.  Real communism is classless everyone has equal ownership of production and politics.  At least thats how it works in theory now getting greedy humans to look at the bigger picture and not give into corruption is another.


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Bustin caps like Eastwood on crack!!!

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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: bangpowboomers]
    #17249150 -

A classless society is unattainable fantasy it rewards the lazy individuals and punishes those who have worked hard for what they have. The accumulation of wealth is not morally wrong your classless society could only be maintained through force. Look at any communist nation and you will see starving peasants and a few rich bureaucrats. Communism by its very nature lends to corruption and the stranglehold of the common people. Do you not find it odd that the capitalist nations on earth have the most wealth and prosperity as well as economic and political freedom. In your communist society you destroy the incentive to work and make everyone a slave to the state.


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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #17249158 -

you do realize there has never been true capitalism or true communism in any country ever right?


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Long live kratom :kratom:

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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: danielx]
    #17249189 -

danielx said:
you do realize there has never been true capitalism or true communism in any country ever right?


The US was pretty close as was the USSR. We can nitpick the details all day long but the truth remains that communism as an ideology is deeply flawed and should not ever be approached.


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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: Gilgamesh18]
    #17250345 -

Gilgamesh18 said:
A classless society is unattainable fantasy it rewards the lazy individuals and punishes those who have worked hard for what they have. The accumulation of wealth is not morally wrong your classless society could only be maintained through force. Look at any communist nation and you will see starving peasants and a few rich bureaucrats. Communism by its very nature lends to corruption and the stranglehold of the common people. Do you not find it odd that the capitalist nations on earth have the most wealth and prosperity as well as economic and political freedom. In your communist society you destroy the incentive to work and make everyone a slave to the state.



So in our cappitalist society only the lazy don't prosper and the hard working folk do well thats completely untrue.  Yes there are people out there that go to school and do work hard that become successful.  Does that mean a person who didn't go to college yet works everyday of their life is a great worker yet because they didn't go to college and become a doctor lawyer maybe a stock broker they don't deserve things that those people have.  It is a bit of a dream but we as people would have to take on more responsibilities to actually make it work.  The incentive to work would be maintain a society where everyone has everything that we all need.  I mean I love nice things that I don't really need but I've been indoctrinated like so many others to want these things.  It may be a dream but dreams do come true if you work hard enough towards them.


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Bustin caps like Eastwood on crack!!!

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Re: Do you read Howard Zinn? [Re: bangpowboomers]
    #17255274 -

Its not about indoctrination towards wanting luxury goods its about taking from people that are productive and rewarding sloth and laziness. The free market determines wages far more equitably than any government bureaucrat. In any developed western country even the poor live very well compared to the masses of thirdworlders.


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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