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Anonymous

P2P file sharing.
    #1683281 - 07/03/03 10:30 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

what are your thoughts? is it stealing?

i think it's stealing. actually, i know it's stealing.

it's theft.

but i've got little money and i like music, so i do it anyway. i guess i'm a hypocrite with no integrity. at least i'm not one of the deluded ones who don't see it as theft.


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Offlineshakta
Infidel
Registered: 06/03/03
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: ]
    #1683311 - 07/03/03 10:37 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I am in the same boat as you. It is definately theft. I have quit downloading with the recent RIAA push to sue it's customers. If they would just put all the music online, were I can download any song I want for a reasonable flat rate, this problem would decrease greatly for them. I would love to be able to download high quality music for a fair price. I don't want to buy a $15 CD for one good song.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,203
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: shakta]
    #1683325 - 07/03/03 10:41 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Exactly.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineBetMomIsProud
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Registered: 05/15/03
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1683638 - 07/03/03 12:33 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Then there is the faction (of which I'm a part) who believe that our art ceases to be ours when it's finished. It's our voice, a visible expression of our emotions and thoughts, but (for instance) when I'm done blowing a glass piece, it's made by me but no longer mine. Good art is a contribution to society and should be viewed that way, not as a meal ticket. Artists and recording labels are correct, we're technically stealing copyrighted material, but why should there be a copyright on beauty? Musicians should stop and realize that if it weren't for people sitting at home wanting to listen to them they'd still be practicing in a garage in BFE America for nothing. Starving artists are starving because they believe that the art is not theirs, but everyone's, the way it should be.


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Nothing is idiot proof. Just need a real talented idiot.


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: ]
    #1683856 - 07/03/03 02:06 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

There's a (legal) difference between theft, and copyright infringement.
Stealing a CD from a store would be considered to be theft, as the person would be depriving the store of a physical item that they (the store) purchased, and now cannot sell.
Downloading a song that you don't own an original copy of would be copyright infringement, as the song would be perfectly copied, not actually stolen.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Anonymous

Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: ]
    #1683861 - 07/03/03 02:07 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Something to consider though... Copyright is the only thing that makes it theft, since obviously people have been passing songs down through generations for centuries before copyright was invented. So it's more a legal technicality rather than a moral issue. Just as jokes and made-up stories are passed along through people, many songs are as well. It's only when something is copyrighted that most people then consider it theft.


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
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Registered: 01/26/01
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: ]
    #1683926 - 07/03/03 02:32 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Personally, I don't think it's theft unless you are using it to make money...What's the difference between downloading a song and recording it from the radio or CD? Both are perfectly legal as far as I know...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


Edited by Rono (07/03/03 02:33 PM)


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: Rono]
    #1683950 - 07/03/03 02:47 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Radio stations have to pay the RIAA royalties on every song played, hell, even Shoutcast-based web stations have to pay the RIAA royalties, even if they play unsigned artists (who won't see a penny).


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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InvisibleInnvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
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Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: ]
    #1684041 - 07/03/03 03:42 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

It's theft but hey, whatcha gonna do eh?


--------------------

America....FUCK YEAH!!!

Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: Edame]
    #1684061 - 07/03/03 03:47 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

>>>even if they play unsigned artists<<<


What? Where did you hear that? How could that even be possible?


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1684316 - 07/03/03 05:21 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

how is it stealing? last time I checked the product record companies are selling is CD's, a tangible physical product.

this product is coupled with marketing which results in a media persona, the music is just a by=product. If the music was artist controlled, it would be a different story, but from a 14 dollar cd, the artist gets 1 loonie (canadian for dollar), the rest of the money is for profit packaging and marketing.

so if it is theft, then its only 7% theft, a price you can easily make up for by going to the artists concert.

fuck record companies, media conglomerates have no claim to music, they are an aging dinasaur that will soon be dead, so stab them in the eyes while you can!!!!


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: atomikfunksoldier]
    #1684333 - 07/03/03 05:25 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

People need to stop listening to commercial music, and find some undiscovered bands.

You don't have to eat what they're feeding you.


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InvisibleEdame
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1684616 - 07/03/03 07:51 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
>>>even if they play unsigned artists<<<


What? Where did you hear that? How could that even be possible?




It was in The Register. They published an article (as did everyone else) on how the RIAA were going to start sueing anything with a pulse, and they got quite a few emails about it.
One email in particular was from an independent artist who has his songs played on SomaFM (great station). The RIAA got pissed that webcasters weren't paying royalties, and now the online stations have to pay fees to the RIAA.
So SomaFM have to pay the RIAA about $5-6000 a year (and a couple of thousand more in backpayments), because they play some signed artists. This guy was rightfully pissed off, because the RIAA collect royalties from SomaFM, but he will never see any of that money, because he's unsigned.


--------------------
The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Anonymous

Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: BetMomIsProud]
    #1684901 - 07/03/03 10:25 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Then there is the faction (of which I'm a part) who believe that our art ceases to be ours when it's finished. It's our voice, a visible expression of our emotions and thoughts, but (for instance) when I'm done blowing a glass piece, it's made by me but no longer mine.

if you want to give your art away, that's fine. another faction chooses to copyright and sell their work. a copyright is an agreement. it's a contract between an artist and the rest of the world. it says, "you may have this, but only if it is not duplicated without my permission". every time you buy a copyrighted CD, you take part in this agreement. any time copyrighted material is copied without permission, this agreement is broken, and a crime is commited.

you can forego such an agreement and give your art to the world as a gift if you'd like.

Good art is a contribution to society and should be viewed that way, not as a meal ticket.

building a bridge is a contribution to society. inventing a new medical procedure or invention is too. you may not want to get paid for your contribution, but some others, artists included, may.

but why should there be a copyright on beauty?

because someone copyrighted something. if you don't like it, don't sign the contract, and don't buy it.

Starving artists are starving because they believe that the art is not theirs, but everyone's, the way it should be.

i think that charitable donations are wonderful. i think that a beautiful peice of art is a great contribution. if some choose to give away what they create, with no strings attached, that's great. others sell their works with the stipulation that they cannot be copied without permission. again, if you've got a problem with that, don't buy it.

i don't think you understand the idea of a copyright very well.


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Offlineatomikfunksoldier
T'was born oftrue in the yearof the cock!

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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: ]
    #1684919 - 07/03/03 10:30 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

betmomisproud-Starving artists are starving because they believe that the art is not theirs, but everyone's, the way it should be.

how many starving artists do you know? all the starving artists I know are starving because they arent getting paid, not because they strive for some ideal. they need money just like everybody else, and if someone is skilled and works hard, they should be payed well, so that they can have a comfortable life and make good art.


--------------------
enjoy the entertaining indentity i have constructed for you while you can.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: ]
    #1685810 - 07/04/03 06:42 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Bravo!

A most excellent post.

pinky


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: Phred]
    #1686019 - 07/04/03 10:33 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

They can always do a commercial for a mil.


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http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisiblePinhead
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #1686145 - 07/04/03 11:42 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Whats happening is that the IRS is questioning the loss that the music industry is claiming.I suspect that the music industry is claiming that they are loosing "x" amount of dollars because of piracy. How easy would it be for them to carry some of their other losses over to this claim. They're still making out like bandits.


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: ]
    #1689481 - 07/06/03 04:57 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I'm divided on this issue. I think artists should get paid for their work,but fuck the RIAA. If the RIAA was so concerned about the artists rights, how come they've been fucking over musicians for the last fifty years? I refuse to support a system where it's possible for a musician to not even own the rights to their own work.
And I don't consider spreading digital information to be the same thing as going into a store and stealing tangible goods. You're not just paying for the music,but the packaging,the cd itself,advertising costs,etc.. I dunno,but the idea of owning information is somewhat absurd. Where should the free flow of information begin and end? Should I have to pay somebody everytime I use a quote in my sig? Should I have to pay the estate of Einstein every time I use E=MC2 in a physics paper? Are these not works of art too? As long as someone isn't using someone else's work for financial gain, I really don't see the problem.

I admit, most of the CD's I own are burnt copies. Selling CD's isn't the only way for artists to get paid though. If I really like a band,I'll buy one of their T-shirts,go to their concerts,and generally try to spread the word. Artists might lose money at first from CD sales,but spreading their music for free usually benefits them in the long run. Besides,I lot of the music I download I probably wouldn't have bought anyway.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Offlinemonoamine
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Registered: 09/07/02
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Re: P2P file sharing. [Re: Pinhead]
    #1689495 - 07/06/03 05:04 AM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Whats happening is that the IRS is questioning the loss that the music industry is claiming.I suspect that the music industry is claiming that they are loosing "x" amount of dollars because of piracy.




Good point. How can you lose money you never had in the first place? How can they possibly come up with an accurate figure of how much money they're loosing?


--------------------
People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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