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JBOD woes (and an SSD question)
    #16572444 -

I've got a pretty messy JBOD(Just a Bunch of Drives) situation going on. Five hard drives, 250 or 500GB each. I want to do a fresh install with Windows 7 in a few weeks on a 500GB SSD. (SSD question: Any compelling reason I shouldn't get a 500GB SSD in the next few weeks?) I also want to consolidate the data on all these drives onto a new 2TB drive(probably internal but I haven't decided yet).

The main thing I keep thinking about is I don't know how to tell which of these drives is which other than trying to tell which one responds, using sound and touch queues(putting my hand directly on it) when I double click to open the drive in Windows. If I yank a drive before rebooting it will re-letter all the secondary drives, right? So that's really not a good way to go about it. I suppose if there's really no better way I'll pull them all out then copy the data off one at a time alongside the new 2TB internal and the new 500GB(?)SSD. So...yeah, unless anyone has any other slick ideas?

I'm going the SSD route for my C: drive because I want ultra performance for my audio recording/mixing and I feel like the only bottleneck anymore(with an i5 and 16GB RAM) is the platter drive. Anyone know of any secret deals or have a brand suggestion for a 500GB SSD? Any SSD horror stories, brand-specific or otherwise?

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: Viveka]
    #16572483 -

I assume that you do not have some sort of special controller (RAID) for the JBOD... If that is the case, then I would yank all of the drives and install my new SSD and 2TB data drive.  Install windows, format the data drive.  Test to make sure it is all good.  Then, one at a time, plug in each JBOD disk and copy what you care about to your data drive.  Drive letter assignments on the JBOD are irrelevant at this point, but if you care, you can reassign drive letters.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: Seuss]
    #16573146 -

Way more economical to get a smaller SSD and use it as C drive to just hold the OS, browser caches and applications you use frequently paired with a larger traditional drive to hold multimedia. If it is crazy speed you are looking for you may also want to look into RAM disks which is software that allocates a section of your computers RAM as hard drive space. Basically buy a shitton of RAM and section half of it off to hold your most used games/applications and there will be nothing faster than that setup. As for brands I sampled about 10 of them in the 64GB to 128GB range and Crucial was the only one out of all the ones I tried that actually lived up to their quoted read and write speeds.

Also on your current drive situation if you are using windows 7 you should be able to right click->properties->general-tab the drives and give them your own custom names that will stay regardless of automatic drive lettering.


--------------------
"To win at something stupid is to lose at something smart." - Anonymous

Edited by luckybot (07/23/12 09:41 AM)

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: luckybot]
    #16573853 -

If you want to save on HDD space you might be a good idea to do some spring cleaning on your JBOD before you copy all those files over. Windirstat is a good program from examining disk content. http://sourceforge.net/projects/windirstat/?source=directory You might have a bunch of duplicate files hogging up space. http://www.digitalvolcano.co.uk/content/duplicate-cleaner

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: cokane]
    #16573959 -

Building on what cokane said Overdisk is also quite usefull for visualizing disk space usage.


--------------------
"To win at something stupid is to lose at something smart." - Anonymous

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: Seuss]
    #16578288 -

Seuss said:
I assume that you do not have some sort of special controller (RAID) for the JBOD... If that is the case, then I would yank all of the drives and install my new SSD and 2TB data drive.  Install windows, format the data drive.  Test to make sure it is all good.  Then, one at a time, plug in each JBOD disk and copy what you care about to your data drive.  Drive letter assignments on the JBOD are irrelevant at this point, but if you care, you can reassign drive letters.


Thanks, yeah this is what I've decided to do. Is formatting the data drive even necessary? I think I've usually just plugged in a new drive, booted up and called it good here in the modern era...

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: luckybot]
    #16578342 -

luckybot said:
Way more economical to get a smaller SSD and use it as C drive to just hold the OS, browser caches and applications you use frequently paired with a larger traditional drive to hold multimedia. If it is crazy speed you are looking for you may also want to look into RAM disks which is software that allocates a section of your computers RAM as hard drive space. Basically buy a shitton of RAM and section half of it off to hold your most used games/applications and there will be nothing faster than that setup. As for brands I sampled about 10 of them in the 64GB to 128GB range and Crucial was the only one out of all the ones I tried that actually lived up to their quoted read and write speeds.

Also on your current drive situation if you are using windows 7 you should be able to right click->properties->general-tab the drives and give them your own custom names that will stay regardless of automatic drive lettering.


Yeah, I think I'll go for a 250GB or so SSD(instead of blowing $400 for a 500GB) for my C: drive and just put the OS, my DAW host and any critical apps on the SSD and that will leave enough space on it to write my current audio project data onto the SSD as well. As there any reason I shouldn't write audio data as I'm recording onto the SSD as well? I'd also leave it on the SSD as long as it was my primary project then move it off to a platter drive later. Is this bad practice? SSD's perform better at reads, not so much writes, right? So maybe I should just record to platter drives and go with an even smaller SSD? You can always install less critical apps to a secondary drive right?

I like the tip about right click > properties in Win7 to custom name the drives too, thanks! Though by that point I hope to have eliminated the need for the JBOD. I've been meaning to build a RAID10 but I'm not sure it's even worth the hassle and protection overhead not to mention the cost of a good controller. I need to get numbers on IOPS for a RAID5 with 4 drives(say 500GB each which would give me 1.5TB usable) vs a bare 7200RPM SATA drive. Or I could just do a software RAID0 with two fat drives and get on a regular backup schedule.

I dunno, actually the RAID5 idea sounds pretty good now that I think about it. Anybody have a suggestion for a good hardware controller?

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: cokane]
    #16578348 -

cokane said:
If you want to save on HDD space you might be a good idea to do some spring cleaning on your JBOD before you copy all those files over. Windirstat is a good program from examining disk content. http://sourceforge.net/projects/windirstat/?source=directory You might have a bunch of duplicate files hogging up space. http://www.digitalvolcano.co.uk/content/duplicate-cleaner


Oh boy do I have duplicate files. That's been my sad data protection scheme for years, only getting worse all the time as my paranoia following two major crashes increased exponentially. Thanks for the app suggestions(and luckybot for the Overdisk tip as well). I'll definitely be checking those out!

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: Viveka]
    #16578549 -

I got a new hard drive last month. At that time a had a j b o d mess. I unplugged all extra drives except the c drive. Installed my new drive thinking my computer would find the drive and the drive would be formatted from the factory. For some reason when I powered my machine up it had lost the boot loader and would not start. I ended up having to reinstall windows and while I installed I made sure to format the new disk.

Keep in mind there is a slight chance your new drive might be a lemon. I wouldn't load it up with a bunch of data asap. I might let it stay idle for a couple days to make sure it doesn't fry.

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: cokane]
    #16583890 -

You know, I've got a 1TB WD caviar black sitting here that was DOA back in September. I tried to RMA it but I fucked up the timing and now I'm waiting for WD to get back to me too see if I can RMA it now, 10 months later. But maybe it wasn't DOA, it just needs to be formatted...but how do you format a drive if your SATA controller doesn't see it?

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: Viveka]
    #16585627 -

Can you see it under disk management? Right click computer -> manage -> disk management -> Action -> Rescan disks. Failing that you can use linux and fdisk.

Edited by luckybot (07/25/12 11:30 AM)

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: luckybot]
    #16596014 -

I Figured if I can't see it in the bios it's not gonna appear in Windohs disk management.

Yeah, I've been meaning to set up Ubuntu on my spare box here at home. Especially considering that my job involves pretty extensive unix admin stuff(NAS support) and my experience with Unix up to this point has involved about four years of crash course. I now feel slightly more proficient with Unix than I did with DOS back in about '97. Honestly all this tech stuff isn't something I'm all that passionate about so I've only gotten as close to it as I have to in order to make a living and achieve goals that rely on these confounded machines in my spare time.

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: Viveka]
    #16604856 -

I fall back on Parted Magic for all storage drive issues, even most virus problems where I need to get data off compromised drives.  You can boot from a LiveCD, it's Linux.  Boot from that and look around in each drive, write down the letter and the contents after inspecting. 

As for the SSD, definitely put your OS on that drive.  They're one of the single best upgrades in PC hardware in about as long as I can remember.  500gb is large, but always assign stuff like iTunes libraries or even Steam(if you game) on another HDD so your SSD doesn't fill up.  The winsxs folder continually grows, so I still do a secure ATA erase on my SSD every 6 months or so.  OCZ has an amazing guide on how to do that using Parted Magic on their forums. 

I'd agree with Seuss, get yourself a RAID controller and set those up nice and neat, striped if you want a couple drives operating in performance, and mirror them if you have the extra space for the inevitable failure(s).


--------------------


Science is a way of thinking much more than it is a body of knowledge. - My hero, who will be forever remembered, Carl Sagan.


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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: Viveka]
    #16653638 -

Viveka said:
I Figured if I can't see it in the bios it's not gonna appear in Windohs disk management.

Yeah, I've been meaning to set up Ubuntu on my spare box here at home. Especially considering that my job involves pretty extensive unix admin stuff(NAS support) and my experience with Unix up to this point has involved about four years of crash course. I now feel slightly more proficient with Unix than I did with DOS back in about '97. Honestly all this tech stuff isn't something I'm all that passionate about so I've only gotten as close to it as I have to in order to make a living and achieve goals that rely on these confounded machines in my spare time.


listen. The reason you feel you never have to format a drive, and that you just put the disk in, boot to it from the bios menu, and install away, is because OSes always have an option for format a partition for you. If you want to put ubuntu on another partition, take the users suggestions here. Download gparted or other partitioning disk, as an .iso, burn it to a disk, and boot to it, then partition your drive accordingly, making sure it's contiguous, with swap space, that you don't lose files etc.

All advice in this thread is awesome. But don't forget, if you partition from windows disk management by right clicking on my computer, or going to control panel, or whatever method you use, your MAIN FILE SYSTEM is already mounted. This is more risky. Anything you really want to do should be done by booting to a mini OS such as gparted or other partitioning software, or if possible doing it from the grub. I don't think grub menu options these days usually include options to partition a disk, at least if they do, I haven't heard of it yet.


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: Viveka]
    #16653656 -

Viveka said:
I Figured if I can't see it in the bios it's not gonna appear in Windohs disk management.

Yeah, I've been meaning to set up Ubuntu on my spare box here at home. Especially considering that my job involves pretty extensive unix admin stuff(NAS support) and my experience with Unix up to this point has involved about four years of crash course. I now feel slightly more proficient with Unix than I did with DOS back in about '97. Honestly all this tech stuff isn't something I'm all that passionate about so I've only gotten as close to it as I have to in order to make a living and achieve goals that rely on these confounded machines in my spare time.


it's not something you are passionate about? Yet you do pretty extensive unix admin stuff? Interesting... :confused:

I'd visit ubuntu forums if I were you


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: imachavel]
    #16664283 -

imachavel said:
Viveka said:
I Figured if I can't see it in the bios it's not gonna appear in Windohs disk management.

Yeah, I've been meaning to set up Ubuntu on my spare box here at home. Especially considering that my job involves pretty extensive unix admin stuff(NAS support) and my experience with Unix up to this point has involved about four years of crash course. I now feel slightly more proficient with Unix than I did with DOS back in about '97. Honestly all this tech stuff isn't something I'm all that passionate about so I've only gotten as close to it as I have to in order to make a living and achieve goals that rely on these confounded machines in my spare time.


listen. The reason you feel you never have to format a drive, and that you just put the disk in, boot to it from the bios menu, and install away, is because OSes always have an option for format a partition for you. If you want to put ubuntu on another partition, take the users suggestions here. Download gparted or other partitioning disk, as an .iso, burn it to a disk, and boot to it, then partition your drive accordingly, making sure it's contiguous, with swap space, that you don't lose files etc.

All advice in this thread is awesome. But don't forget, if you partition from windows disk management by right clicking on my computer, or going to control panel, or whatever method you use, your MAIN FILE SYSTEM is already mounted. This is more risky. Anything you really want to do should be done by booting to a mini OS such as gparted or other partitioning software, or if possible doing it from the grub. I don't think grub menu options these days usually include options to partition a disk, at least if they do, I haven't heard of it yet.


I was just talking about adding a secondary drive. I usually just plug in the SATA(or PATA for my older drives)cable, power cable and boot the machine, look for it in the BIOS then go about my merry way.

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Re: JBOD woes (and an SSD question) [Re: imachavel]
    #16664309 -

imachavel said:
Viveka said:
I Figured if I can't see it in the bios it's not gonna appear in Windohs disk management.

Yeah, I've been meaning to set up Ubuntu on my spare box here at home. Especially considering that my job involves pretty extensive unix admin stuff(NAS support) and my experience with Unix up to this point has involved about four years of crash course. I now feel slightly more proficient with Unix than I did with DOS back in about '97. Honestly all this tech stuff isn't something I'm all that passionate about so I've only gotten as close to it as I have to in order to make a living and achieve goals that rely on these confounded machines in my spare time.


it's not something you are passionate about? Yet you do pretty extensive unix admin stuff? Interesting... :confused:

I'd visit ubuntu forums if I were you


Yeah, weird right? My first four years with Unix were at my last job and it was something I eased into as it wasn't absolutely critical to do my work, it just helped to know your way around, and to advance you had to pick it up progressively. It was a huge pain in the ass though because we had a hybrid HP/Sun system and a hybrid zsh/mystery shell with a couple sets of in-house scripts. It drove me absolutely nuts as a neophyte, bouncing back and forth between shells, sometimes case-sensitive, sometimes not, multiple sets of credentials, etc.

Now in my position doing NAS support everything is in freebsd so it's all consistent and has tab complete which often saves me when I hit a wall. I now realize I learned a good bit through osmosis at my last job and I'm learning a lot pretty much everyday, building on my previous hellish crash course. And I do spend a lot of time in Ubuntu and various other unix-related forums these days(usually when I'm on the phone or WebEx with a customer trying to figure out how in the hell I am going to resolve their issue, lol).

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