Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

Magic Mushrooms Zamnesia
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 |  [ show all ]
But is the symbolic inauthentic?
    #15604124 -

I am not referring to the objects of symbolism, but rather the very fact that it is there...

Icelander?....anyone?


--------------------
The man of science is a poor philosopher --- Albert Einstein

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: somaholiday]
    #15604127 -

fiction, all fiction  :willynilly:


--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: blingbling]
    #15604131 -

Those objects/symbols are there only because we are able to make the connections and recognize them. Sometimes it makes me think we are all schizophrenic to some degree.


--------------------
You wanna get high? Drink tap water.
--------------------

Edited by The Phleg (01/02/12 04:34 AM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: The Phleg]
    #15604144 -

How do you know if our recognition is a cause or a symptom.


--------------------
The man of science is a poor philosopher --- Albert Einstein

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: somaholiday]
    #15604151 -

I don't know. :shrug: I just keep it all bottled up inside and go on with life.


--------------------
You wanna get high? Drink tap water.
--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: blingbling]
    #15604170 -

hahahaha...I see what you did there! :thumbup:


--------------------
The man of science is a poor philosopher --- Albert Einstein

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: somaholiday]
    #15604329 -

I didn't.  :undecided:


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: dustinthewind13]
    #15604333 -

Me neither. I didn't do anything. :blush:


--------------------
You wanna get high? Drink tap water.
--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: The Phleg]
    #15604350 -

I blame chemicals for not being able to do anything. :undecided:


--------------------
"It is the peculiar quality of a fool to perceive the faults of others and forget his own." - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"A room without books is like a body without a soul."  - Marcus Tullius Cicero

"Do not bite at the bait of pleasure, till you know there is no hook beneath it." -Thomas Jefferson

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: somaholiday]
    #15604423 -

the study of symbols is most invaluable:

how they seem to be root forms or key ideas representing whole classes of "actual" experiences or objects that we encounter.

how they become smoothed like river rocks over time more 'perfect' with each erosion.

how they are exchanged 'symbolically' and what that says about us as beings that would use or value symbolism.

all of this has to do with simplification and abstraction from the pluralities of the actual yet it also has to do with making meaningful connections to memories of the actual and management of the actual in life.

From real life we create representative symbols (and functional models of symbols interacting) and from our symbols we order and organize actual life. (the more eroded generalized and 'evolved' these symbols become the better our understandings and the models become)

language, culture, engineering, science and art depend on symbols.

to call this meta layer of ideas or forms inauthentc may be a misuse of the term, though the symbolic is definitely indirect, and rarely witnessed as actuality except in ritual or animation.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: The Phleg]
    #15604432 -

dustinthewind13 said:
I didn't.  :undecided:


pyrate999 said:
Me neither. I didn't do anything. :blush:


blingbling was making a point about the irony of Becker.


--------------------
The man of science is a poor philosopher --- Albert Einstein

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: somaholiday]
    #15605289 -

Symbols represent abstractions, and abstractions discard individual details in order to manifest shared patterns. The observation that all electrons have exactly the same electric charge is one example of a pattern, and an image of the face of the Virgin Mary in a piece of toast is another pattern. The nature of the significance and usefulness of these two patterns are quite different, however.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #15605416 -

redgreenvines said:
to call this meta layer of ideas or forms inauthentc may be a misuse of the term, though the symbolic is definitely indirect, and rarely witnessed as actuality except in ritual or animation.


Which was why I qualified that I was not referring to the objects of symbolism.

I think considering the study of symbols is an interesting distraction, and its value is relative.

I am more interested in the essence* of symbolism.  I am half way through Becker, and so far, despite how other people seemed to have interpretted his work, he has not given a conclusion on the matter....which from other threads I have seen on here, I was half expecting he would.

Infact he presents both our symbolic and physical being as mutually distinctive although in constant conflict.

That is my understanding so far anyway.

Tell me things.

*not the often assumed cause, anxiety etc


--------------------
The man of science is a poor philosopher --- Albert Einstein

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: somaholiday]
    #15605709 -

You may reach a shadow of Becker's thesis by sifting through the echoes of his readers (I am not among that class). Symbols are the authentic but personal reduction of specificity of the keys to a generality of information and experiences. (part of the process of classifying, the reverse is the process of layering and developing chimeras - hence creativity - symbols remain active in creativity as does the fulcrum to the lever.)

the symbolic is a meta layer that helps with dealing with the base layer of experience (raw information) - only the basest layer is easy to authenticate.


--------------------
:brainfart: _ :finger:

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #15605749 -

redgreenvines said:
You may reach a shadow of Becker's thesis by sifting through the echoes of his readers (I am not among that class). Symbols are the authentic but personal reduction of specificity of the keys to a generality of information and experiences. (part of the process of classifying, the reverse is the process of layering and developing chimeras - hence creativity - symbols remain active in creativity as does the fulcrum to the lever.)

the symbolic is a meta layer that helps with dealing with the base layer of experience (raw information) - only the basest layer is easy to authenticate.


Thanks. Ermmm..


--------------------
The man of science is a poor philosopher --- Albert Einstein

Edited by somaholiday (01/02/12 02:31 PM)

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: somaholiday]
    #15606502 -

somaholiday said:
I am not referring to the objects of symbolism, but rather the very fact that it is there...

Icelander?....anyone?


the symbolic is a realm of radical alterity. speech and language are beyond the subject's conscious control,  it's dimension is constituted by weight of it's mutual differences within the linguistic context. you only speak up as it were because you are projecting bad faith on the listener's ability to mediate signal and signified. even though the symbolic exists beyond actual language, example:

  when someone winks at you, the wink is the signifier. you deliver the wink to fill in a gap that the other was previously missing

it is the essence of in-authenticity in my opinion


--------------------
You are at once
both
the quiet
and
the confusion
of my heart.
-Franz Kafka

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: somaholiday]
    #15607523 -

Symbolism is definitely inauthentic. It's basically a crappy attempt on our part to transpose the subtle qualities of life into a symbol that is supposed to represent the original idea but fails miserably. Suppose you're sitting on the banks of a stream, watching this clear, glassy, glistening liquid flow through the landscape, and you're just experiencing that moment there and now. Now suppose you find out that other people refer to that thing by name. They call it "water". The word "water" is a symbol that is supposed to represent that glistening, shiny liquid that you experienced on that day... So yeah symbols are definitely inauthentic.


--------------------
"The world which we perceive is a tiny fraction of the world which we can perceive, which is a tiny fraction of the perceivable world, you see"  -Terence Mckenna

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: Psiles]
    #15607651 -

somaholiday said:
dustinthewind13 said:
I didn't.  :undecided:


pyrate999 said:
Me neither. I didn't do anything. :blush:


blingbling was making a point about the irony of Becker.


you caught that. the force is strong in you young padawan  :karatechop:

Psiles said:
Symbolism is definitely inauthentic. It's basically a crappy attempt on our part to transpose the subtle qualities of life into a symbol that is supposed to represent the original idea but fails miserably. Suppose you're sitting on the banks of a stream, watching this clear, glassy, glistening liquid flow through the landscape, and you're just experiencing that moment there and now. Now suppose you find out that other people refer to that thing by name. They call it "water". The word "water" is a symbol that is supposed to represent that glistening, shiny liquid that you experienced on that day... So yeah symbols are definitely inauthentic.


symbols are inauthentic in an objective sense but symbols also create genuine parts of reality that would not be here without them. this is done in the same way that emotions create reality, for example desire in an objective world does not make sense because it's premise is that the desired object is more valuable than a neutral object but none the less desire is real. the mcdonalds M creates desire which is real. without the skewing  of reality found in emotions and symbols genuine parts of reality could not exist. perhaps this skewed reality is actually more real than objective reality.

this guy explains it better than me:



--------------------
Kupo said:
let's fuel the robots with psilocybin.

cez said:
everyone should smoke dmt for religion.

dustinthewind13 said:
euthanasia and prostitution should be legal and located in the same building.

White Beard said:
if you see the buddha on the road, rape him, then kill him. then rape him again.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: somaholiday]
    #15608561 -

somaholiday said:
I am not referring to the objects of symbolism, but rather the very fact that it is there...


What do you mean? Symbols are what you perceive them as. They are only inauthentic if you are inauthentic as a person..?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: But is the symbolic inauthentic? [Re: Psiles]
    #15608599 -

Psiles said:
The word "water" is a symbol that is supposed to represent that glistening, shiny liquid that you experienced on that day... So yeah symbols are definitely inauthentic.


Yes, some uses of symbols are inauthentic. If you say "I was sitting on a bank above some water" and insist that this sentence contains everything there is to know about your experience, then the communication is inauthentic. But if you are just providing some partial information via symbols, and you do this in a truthful way, then how can that be called inauthentic?

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 |  [ show all ]

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Heidegger and Being Authentic
( 1 2 all )		 r72rock 2,489 24 02/01/15 06:28 PM
by quinn
* Symbols of Unconditional Love?
( 1 2 all )		 Chronic7 8,209 23 02/09/08 09:51 AM
by Draigan
* Achieving the Authentic Self using Tarot?! KickleM 1,060 11 06/28/09 01:35 PM
by OrgoneConclusion
* Existentialism and "authenticity"...??? figmentfragment 600 2 03/30/09 03:09 AM
by MushroomTrip
* DMT -- symbolism and jungian archetypes
( 1 2 3 all )		 longstrangetrip8 3,716 42 01/14/14 04:36 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Is there a such thing as an authentic character?
( 1 2 all )		 Poid 1,615 23 01/04/11 06:43 AM
by redgreenvines
* An 'authentic' plumber does not charge money.
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )		 OrgoneConclusion 4,624 135 07/17/13 11:54 PM
by Freedreamer
* Hammering your girlfriend- Symbolic and Literal language.
( 1 2 all )		 gettinjiggywithit 2,942 34 02/03/06 01:55 PM
by gettinjiggywithit

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,252 topic views. 2 members, 24 guests and 104 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.031 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 18 queries.