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Need a little advice about buying a new GPU...
    #15500464 -

Hey all,

So I'm going to be building a budget gaming computer within the next month or so. I know what parts I will be buying for the most part, but I'm conflicted between a couple different GPUs.

First, here's what I'll be using (excluding the GPU):

Motherboard: MSI 970A-G45 AMD 9 Series AM3+

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition

RAM: Crucial Ballistix 4GB DDR3 (1333MHz)

Hard drive: Hitachi 500 GB

Optical Drive: Lite-On Internal 24x CD/DVD Drive

Power Supply: Cooler Master eXtreme 500 Watt

As for my graphics card, I'm stuck between buying a GeForce GTX 460, and a GeForce GTX 560. The problem is, I don't know if my other parts, specifically the power supply, will be able to handle the GTX 560. Also, there are quite a few different versions of each card, and I'm not entirely sure how good the quality is of the cheaper (as low as $159 w/ rebate) 560 cards. I only want to spend more than $160 on the card if the performance is significantly enhanced, and of course, it's compatible with my other parts. I want to be able to run most games, specifically Skyrim and Starcraft, on the highest detail settings. Here are my options:

460s:

- Gigabyte GV-N460OC-1GI GeForce GTX 460 Video Card - 1GB, GDDR5, OC, PCI-Express 2.0, DVI, HDMI, DirectX 11, SLI Ready $159

- EVGA 01G-P3-1372-TR GeForce GTX 460 SuperClocked Video Card - 1024MB GDDR5, PCI-Express 2.0, Dual DVI, Mini-HDMI, SLI, DirectX 11 $159

- EVGA 01G-P3-1370-TR GeForce GTX 460 Video Card - 1024MB GDDR5, PCI-Express 2.0, Dual DVI, Mini HDMI, SLI, DirectX 11, Fermi $179

560s:

- GIGABYTE GV-N56GOC-1GI GeForce GTX 560 OC Edition Video Card - 1GB, GDDR5, PCI-Express 2.0 (x16), 2x 2x DVI-I, 1x Mini-HDMI, DirectX 11, Dual-Slot, SLI Ready, Overclocked $169

- Galaxy 56NGH6HS3KXZ GeForce GTX 560 Video Card - 1GB, GDDR5, PCI-Express 2.0 (x16), 2x Dual-Link DVI-I, 1x Mini-HDMI, DirectX 11, Dual-Slot, SLI Ready $159

- EVGA 01G-P3-1460-KR GeForce GTX 560 Video Card - 1GB, GDDR5, PCI-Express 2.0 (x16), 2x Dual-Link DVI-I, Mini-HDMI, DirectX 11, Dual-Slot, SLI Ready $179

Any suggestions?


--------------------
Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakes.
∞


Are we but a moment found?
Or a moment lost, a moment unbound?

Edited by psychoanomaly (12/11/11 06:46 PM)

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: psychoanomaly]
    #15500752 -

Why are you considering a power supply that may not be powerful enough to run your hardware? Your power supply is one of the most important pieces of hardware to decide upon as it can make or break your system.

Edited by thecake (12/11/11 06:56 PM)

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: thecake]
    #15500894 -

500 watts was suggested for all of the parts I'm using, but the GPU that was suggested  for the system was a GTX 550. I want to go a little higher than this, but I'm on a very limited budget. I just want to know what I can get away with using a 500 watt supply. If it happens that 500 watts can't support a GTX 460, than I will upgrade to 600 watts, but I don't want to spend the extra money if I don't need to.


--------------------
Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakes.
∞


Are we but a moment found?
Or a moment lost, a moment unbound?

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: psychoanomaly]
    #15500983 -

Check the product specification sheets for the GPUs you are considering. I'm sure their manufacturer's have them available online. No need to waste time having to return a power supply for a more powerful one. Not to mention that not all hardware is easily diagnosed as under-powered. A lot of hardware will still function when under-powered but not to its full potential.

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: thecake]
    #15501212 -

Thanks. I checked out the manufacturer's website and discovered that 500 watts will support the 460, though it is the minimum recommended. I'll try to go for a 600 watt if I can.

After some research I've decided that I definitely want to go with one of the GTX 460 cards, I just don't know if I should buy EVGA or Gigabyte. Do you know if there are any differences between the two? I've been searching around online with no luck so far.


--------------------
Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakes.
∞


Are we but a moment found?
Or a moment lost, a moment unbound?

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: psychoanomaly]
    #15501302 -

If I were you I'd spend an extra 30 bucks and get this 80+ certified Antec with 3 rails
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371016


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: psychoanomaly]
    #15502128 -

psychoanomaly said:
I just don't know if I should buy EVGA or Gigabyte. Do you know if there are any differences between the two?


I can tell you that EVGA has an excellent return policy and excellent customer service.

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: thecake]
    #15502232 -

thecake said:
psychoanomaly said:
I just don't know if I should buy EVGA or Gigabyte. Do you know if there are any differences between the two?


I can tell you that EVGA has an excellent return policy and excellent customer service.


I have an EVGA gtx 560Ti.  It's pretty boss.


--------------------

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #15503305 -

I ended up buying the Gigabyte GTX 560 OC. Cost me around $154 with the rebate, and included a free download of Batman: Arkham Asylum. Pretty bad ass deal, I think. I will have to upgrade to 600 Watts for this, but I think it's worth it.

I would have gone with EVGA, but the price was a bit higher for a card that is a bit slower. Hopefully I won't regret Gigabytes apparent lack of specific warranty information. I'll just have to be extremely careful when I'm putting this thing together.


--------------------
Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakes.
∞


Are we but a moment found?
Or a moment lost, a moment unbound?

Edited by psychoanomaly (12/12/11 04:37 PM)

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: psychoanomaly]
    #15510125 -

psychoanomaly said:
Thanks. I checked out the manufacturer's website and discovered that 500 watts will support the 460, though it is the minimum recommended. I'll try to go for a 600 watt if I can.

After some research I've decided that I definitely want to go with one of the GTX 460 cards, I just don't know if I should buy EVGA or Gigabyte. Do you know if there are any differences between the two? I've been searching around online with no luck so far.


first thing is first. yes if you can get an 800 watt power supply, even if your computer will turn on with a lower psu, if you are maxing out that psu it will burn out faster. but even before that first thing is first, you need to check the compatibility of your motherboard for the power supply connector. a psu depending on how much wattage it puts out will have a slightly different pin connector and must have a matching pin connector on the board. for example one psu connector might have a 16 pin board connector, another might have a 20 pin board connector, e.g. the cpu power connector will always be 4 pins, most psu's will always have at least one ide power cable and tons of sata power cables. just be careful with compatibility.

buy a compatible heat sink with your socket type, compatible processor, compatible ram, etc. get a hard drive that works with the main board controller, e.g. ide or sata. or is this an old build that you are just adding in a higher end gpu? I didn't really look at the graphics cards you listed but here is a really good one:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product_geforce_gtx_480_us.html


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: psychoanomaly]
    #15510155 -

psychoanomaly said:
I ended up buying the Gigabyte GTX 560 OC. Cost me around $154 with the rebate, and included a free download of Batman: Arkham Asylum. Pretty bad ass deal, I think. I will have to upgrade to 600 Watts for this, but I think it's worth it.

I would have gone with EVGA, but the price was a bit higher for a card that is a bit slower. Hopefully I won't regret Gigabytes apparent lack of specific warranty information. I'll just have to be extremely careful when I'm putting this thing together.


500 watts won't do it huh? wow that is an intense graphics card. back in the day 2001ish, upgrading your system while needing a more adequate power supply, meant you jumped from a 350 watt power supply to a 400 watt power supply. well 500 watts is healthier for your entire system. your gpu will probably use the least of the power, the entire build will be maxed out when using higher end applications, and all chips/drives/cards/anything will need more adequate power or you will be draining that psu for every watt it has = it will burn out faster. once it burns out you will freak when your pc doesn't turn on and probably assume that you have some other major problem going on. always use an adequate psu.


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: RonaldFuckingPaul]
    #15510177 -

reeferaddict69 said:
thecake said:
psychoanomaly said:
I just don't know if I should buy EVGA or Gigabyte. Do you know if there are any differences between the two?


I can tell you that EVGA has an excellent return policy and excellent customer service.


I have an EVGA gtx 560Ti.  It's pretty boss.


I'll fucking say it is for sure

http://www.evga.com/products/pdf/012-P3-2068.pdf

btw correction: that card requires no less then a 550 watt power supply


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: imachavel]
    #15510179 -

Quote:
a psu depending on how much wattage it puts out will have a slightly different pin connector and must have a matching pin connector on the board.


No. It only depends on the ATX spec. ATX12V1.0 uses a 20pin mobo connector + auxiliary 4pin 12V connector mainly for the CPU's power needs, while ATX2.x specifies a 24V mobo connector (making the auxiliary 4pin connector obsolete). It has nothing to do with the power rating of the PSU itself.

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: psychoanomaly]
    #15510801 -

psychoanomaly said:
500 watts was suggested for all of the parts I'm using, but the GPU that was suggested  for the system was a GTX 550. I want to go a little higher than this, but I'm on a very limited budget. I just want to know what I can get away with using a 500 watt supply. If it happens that 500 watts can't support a GTX 460, than I will upgrade to 600 watts, but I don't want to spend the extra money if I don't need to.



For whatever reason people go insane with recomendations of power suppply wattages- likely because so many PSU's are rated to a power they can't reliably reach.

Instead of listening to all these ultra-conservative recomendations, including manufacturer recomendations, that assume your power supply puts out a fraction of what its rated for, you should do some research on the unit your interested in and check out if it can actually reach its rated performance.  Then check out your GPU and other big power draws and make sure your supply gives you enough headroom in spec.

I would imagine your much better off getting ahigher quality moderately-rated PSU than one that has a nnice high number but has only average performance (which with PSU's, can get pretty crappy).

Just make sure you check out reviews/ratings that put the PSU under load when testing it.  There are a fair amount of dumb reviews out there that use the equivalent of a multimeter to report the drive can deliver its full rated power- because it managed to output a voltage in spec when no load was put on it :flowstone:

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: johnm214]
    #15511054 -

^^ VERY very true

The wattage written on the outside of the PSU means almost nothing.
It's all about how well it perform under load, does it spike or fluctuate? Can it handle it's full rated load that it is advertised as?

I have seen sooo many shitty ass shit PSUs. Raidmax, Ultra, etc come to mind.

I had a guy trying to get a 580 to work in a Dell. We did all the T/Sing we could and I came down to asking if he could test a different PSU.
"But it has 1000watts!" he said. Check the label on the side I say.
Turns out it was a DELL OEM PSU and had 18AMPS on the +12v rail.
18A TOTAL on a 1000watt PSU, I didn't even know that was fucking possible.
Bottom line, it couldn't even come close to powering a 580 even though it says it had 1000watts.
(580 requires ~600 watts with 42Amps on the +12v)
MOST GOOD 1000watt PSUs on the market provide way more than that, so you automatically think 1000watt PSU = good enough right? Wrong.



I have seen 600watt Ultra PSUs that cannot handle a single 460 under load.
Yet throw in a 500watt Corsair and it runs it all day long.

Wattage rating is not everything. A lot of time they are false advertised.
Also of concern is the amperage on the +12v rail.

FYI the minimum recommend requirements for a 460/560 (they are roughly the same) in the average system is 550watt w/ 38AMPS on the +12v rail.

I have a friend running a 560Ti in his build using a 400watt PSU. It's a very efficient, high quality PSU, and he hasn't had any problems.

Moral of the story: Do NOT buy cheap ass shitty PSUs, and always, always  read reviews. (not Newegg reviews... places like Tom's Hardware, Hardware Secrets and Johnny Guru)


Also you should have gone with EVGA, their customer support is #1 in the industry :wink:
You pay the extra premium for the untouchable customer service, warranty policy, and their forums, tools, all the little things, etc.


--------------------

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: Shroomism]
    #15511266 -

> Do NOT buy cheap ass shitty PSUs

Oh, how that annoys me... somebody will spend $1500 or more on a game rig and toss in a $60 piece of crap power supply to save a few bucks, then wonder why the computer doesn't work worth a damn.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: Shroomism]
    #15511345 -

I guess this:

http://compreviews.about.com/od/cases/a/PSUWattage.htm

is enough of a reason to not need to develop something that allows a connector to pull more then 18 amps on a 1000 watt power supply. peak usage and maximum usage. the truth is a company might have a 500 million dollar product line, and r&d says: "hey, people out there might decide they want to use our psu for a different build other then a shitty low end best buy bargain, let's take into consideration that some people can get a pull of more then 60 amps off a psu"

but considering that business is cutting and shipping, and that means cutting every penny, because on a commission basis, paying r&d and extra dime to create something that costs more to manufacture by maybe a dollar extra spending on each psu that ships, well that is clearly too much. look at our critical situation? what does it have to do with IT? god damn Obama handing out billion dollar bail outs to companies that had billions, had their time, had their opportunity, lost their opportunity, and fucking went bank rupt, get the privilege and getting billion dollar bail outs. where as a guy wanting to create a small business start up company, where he would need minimum 10-30k to start up his business, get's a go fuck yourself letter in the mail

so what you end up with, is a company that is retarded enough to ship a 1000 watt power supply, that pulls no more then 18 amps on the rail needed for a certain connector on the board. does it make sense? it should be the most crystal clear explanation you can get. I wonder if developing a psu is as intense on the r&d side as let's say, developing a new mobo, or developing a new processor, or developing a new os, or developing a new network protocol standard. man that r&d for power supplies, you sure got to pay those guys :rolleyes:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: Seuss]
    #15513828 -

Seuss said:
> Do NOT buy cheap ass shitty PSUs

Oh, how that annoys me... somebody will spend $1500 or more on a game rig and toss in a $60 piece of crap power supply to save a few bucks, then wonder why the computer doesn't work worth a damn.


I got a better one for you.... how about a guy that spends $1450 on GPUs ALONE..
Then calls me up... and I quote "So I just got these 2x GTX 580 Classifieds Hydro Coppers to run in SLI..... what is the cheapest possible PSU I could get for around or under $40 that would run them without problems?"

After I finished facepalming, I spent the next 10 minutes explaining to him how that was the worst idea I have heard all month, and making analogies why that was a retarded idea, and telling him he was an idiot without actually calling him that. I said something like that is akin to dropping a 1,500HP Supercharged Ferrari engine into a stock civic. Or something along those lines. It took me 10-15 minutes of explaining why that was a terrible idea and making analogies for him to go "ohhh ok I get it".

Then the same guy called back not 2 hours later, complaining that BOTH his brand new, $740 cards were not working individually, and was demanding I RMA both of them, literally screaming at me because they weren't working. Turns out he had gone to Fry's, after I explained to him how his idea was completely retarded and went on for 10-15 minutes about how if he's spending 1500 on GPUs then he needs to back in with a reliable and trusted high quality PSU. He went and bought a 800watt OPEN BOX Raidmax (or was it HEC?) that was on sale for $50. (Which, 800watt is not even close to enough even if it was a top quality PSU). It's times like that I wish I could just bitch slap someone through the phone.

Seriously, the guy literally spent over $3,500 on parts of the highest end components possible (including waterloops, SSDs and the whole 9 yards), and then went out and bought the cheapest, shittiest PSU he could possibly find AFTER talking to the tech support guy who STRONGLY warned him not to and gave plenty of recommendations for good ones. Then called back and tried to blame the video cards. Then will sit there and argue with you for a half hour how it's a brand new PSU and that cannot possibly be the issue.

Sadly I see this and similar issues all too often.


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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: Shroomism]
    #15513916 -

I wish I had money to blow like that guy. Luckily the computer I built 5 or 8 years ago still runs all the games that come out, but lots have to be on low settings nowadays =(.

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Re: Need a little advice about buying a new GPU... [Re: Shroomism]
    #15514083 -

Quote:
Seriously, the guy literally spent over $3,500 on parts of the highest end components possible, and then went out and bought the cheapest, shittiest PSU he could possibly find


I see it all the time as well.  I have no idea why people assume that all power supplies are equal and that a $40 PSU will perform the same as a $200 PSU.  I use the car analogy as well, but equate the power supply to the car engine... "So you just spent all this money on a nice car body, nice leather seats, beautiful rims, racing tires, etc, and you want to drop in a go kart engine to power it?"


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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