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Shop: North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Psychiartist or psycologist, who would be in the drivers seat?
    #14474902 -

So, I'm sure we've all read the articles on the news service detailing positive scientific studies involved with psychedelic drugs when used in conjunction with a trained therapist. My question is, in the coming future, when these drugs may be available to the therapist, which professional would be most likely to be conducting these psychedelic sessions with their patients? The psychologist or psychiatrist?

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Re: Psychiartist or psycologist, who would be in the drivers seat? [Re: batman returns]
    #14474921 -

Generally, psychologists don't prescribe drugs.

There are a few states/jurisdictions that are now recognizing "prescribing psychologists" but what they can prescribe is limited.

So the psychiatrist would be in the drivers seat, for sure.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Psychiartist or psycologist, who would be in the drivers seat? [Re: batman returns]
    #14474930 -

the psychiatrist will prescribe
a psychologist working in conjunction with a clinic or physicians might request that a doctor consider prescribing.
Medical doctors prescribe, pharmacists dispense.

psychiatrists are medical doctors
psychologists are not.


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:brainfart: _ :finger:

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Re: Psychiartist or psycologist, who would be in the drivers seat? [Re: badchad]
    #14474984 -

badchad said:
Generally, psychologists don't prescribe drugs.

There are a few states/jurisdictions that are now recognizing "prescribing psychologists" but what they can prescribe is limited.

So the psychiatrist would be in the drivers seat, for sure.


Right.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Psychiartist or psycologist, who would be in the drivers seat? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14475076 -

Ok, so the prescriptions would obviously be handled by the psychiatrist. Would they also most likely conduct the session? Or would a psychologist working with a psychiatrist be the more likely "sitter"?

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Re: Psychiartist or psycologist, who would be in the drivers seat? [Re: batman returns]
    #14475147 -

No way to know, we can only speculate.

Presumably, a psychologist would be able to conduct the session as long as a physician was on call and in the immediate vicinity.  However, there may also be requirements for specific types of medical equipment to be on site.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: Psychiartist or psycologist, who would be in the drivers seat? [Re: badchad]
    #14475370 -

Psychiatrists... they are much more educated.  The only reason they can Rx people is because they went to medical school.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Psychiartist or psycologist, who would be in the drivers seat? [Re: batman returns]
    #14475447 -

http://www.maps.org/research/mdma/training_protocol_for_mdma_ptsd_researchers_phase_1/?utm_source=streamsend&utm_medium=email&utm_content=13762159&utm_campaign=MDMA%20Psychotherapist%20Training%20Study%20Begins%3A%20MAPS%20E-mail%20Newsletter

I'd love to be a duly certified, legal psychedelic guide. I've been doing it since 1973 anyway, it seems that I should be recognized for experience plus academic credentials, plus clinical certifications. In fact, quite honestly, I'm confident that I am a rather an expert in psychedelic psychotherapy.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Psychiartist or psycologist, who would be in the drivers seat? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #14478538 -

MarkostheGnostic said:
I'd love to be a duly certified, legal psychedelic guide. I've been doing it since 1973 anyway, it seems that I should be recognized for experience plus academic credentials, plus clinical certifications. In fact, quite honestly, I'm confident that I am a rather an expert in psychedelic psychotherapy.



Hey Markos if you are serious about getting certified I think your study would be better than Rick Strassmans

how bad ass would that be??


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The Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose.
      J. B. S. Haldane

The quest of the absolute leads into the four-dimensional world.
Sir Arthur Stanley Eddington

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Re: Psychiartist or psycologist, who would be in the drivers seat? [Re: Forever White Belt]
    #14479826 -

Forever White Belt said:
MarkostheGnostic said:
I'd love to be a duly certified, legal psychedelic guide. I've been doing it since 1973 anyway, it seems that I should be recognized for experience plus academic credentials, plus clinical certifications. In fact, quite honestly, I'm confident that I am a rather an expert in psychedelic psychotherapy.



Hey Markos if you are serious about getting certified I think your study would be better than Rick Strassmans

how bad ass would that be??


Thanks for the vote of confidence, but my path is the anathema of the scientific method. Leary was accused similarly, for not maintaining that false 'Archimedian position,' supposedly 'outside' of the experimental subject. Evaluators need to understand the phenomenon subjectively as much as 'objectively.' Understanding the chemistry and the biochemical interaction with biological structures (e.g., which receptor site is filled with what chemical replacement) is little more than analytical intellectual exercises that accumulate one type of knowledge. But that kind of epistemological knowledge is of a lesser order than the gnosis that may transform a human life and imbue it with meaning and purpose. So, I took off my white lab coat long ago and assumed the faded blue jean and long haired look instead, with its unassuming type of Knowing.

"Without leaving my house, I know the whole universe."  -Lao Tzu


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Psychiartist or psycologist, who would be in the drivers seat? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #14480064 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
Psychiatrists... they are much more educated.  The only reason they can Rx people is because they went to medical school.


Like Dr. Cal Lightman, on the show 'Lie to Me," "I'm not that kind of doctor." I'm a Ph.D. with specialties in domains of life that the average M.D. could not fathom. That is why those with a strongly materialistic philosophy more easily accept the materialism of the present-day medical model. After a few solid acid trips, I found it increasingly difficult to pursue a degree in medicine. Any experience that spoke in a language outside of the parameters of medical-scientific jargon, was deemed pathological! So, philosophy, theology, mysticism, theosophy, transpersonal psychology, poetry, theories of knowledge, or consciousness research were all meaningless, non-scientific and hence useless to the guardians of the monistic materialism of the medical model. I either had to forget and reject the most profoundly re-orienting experiences of my life, or dive more deeply into the latter. "Much more educated?" Three years of hard science courses and an internship, providing one passes the state licensure exam, and one can become a medical doctor - usually little more than a technician without a very sophisticated understanding of human nature because they assume only one of three major human components.

Have you ever had the experience of going to a brand new out-of-school M.D. or D.O.? A very bad joke. I was told, without tests, just finger probing, that I had an "aortic aneurism," and a "palpable aortic pulse." An aortic aneurism meant that the largest artery in the body was on the brink of blowing out. Palpable aortic pulse meant that he could press my midsection and feel my aorta pulsing. I certainly hope so! He ordered a holster EKG for me to be worn for 24 hours. I left and cancelled it. He was just out of "the University of Chicago medical school - the Harvard of the midwest," he said. He was also an idiot. I needed a Beta Blocker for a simple, non-fatal, mitral valve murmur. I don't know how many times my own diagnosis has been spot-on, and the physician's wrong - for me or my family. I enjoy showing significant empirical changes in my blood work after using herbals over pharmaceuticals, but my physicians cannot, on principle, admit the efficacy of say, Chinese or Ayurvedic models.

I don't know about other Ph.D.s, but this one delved into a 4 year study of philosophy, a 2 year study of theology and another 4 year study of psychology, which collectively has contributed to his psychotherapeutic approach to human beings. The majority of psychiatrists, being far more mercenary than I could be (because my acknowledged spiritual component is concerned about alleviation of suffering MORE than the accumulation of wealth and status), simply prescribe meds. No psychotherapy which takes time. You can bill for many times more insurance payments a day in a 15-20 minute session than you can with 50 minute hours in psychotherapy, either with or without meds. You see, the average medical doctor is more like an auto mechanic than a shaman-priest. The latter really has to know and understand the psyche to understand other beings. So personal development is absolutely necessary. Medical doctors or auto mechanics MAY acknowledge personal development, in which cases both of their skills will develop because their insight and intuition will develop. Synchronicities and higher faculties will develop when their respective models of 'how it all is' expand to include more than physical reality alone. "More educated" in medicine might help with blood pressure concerns, or contraindications due to chemical interactions, but has less predictive abilities at therapy than several other non-medical disciplines - especially when it comes to psychedelics. The fictional Gregory House, M.D. is an example of a great technician, but a profoundly unhappy and undeveloped human being. This type of individual should not be working in psychedelic psychotherapy.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: Psychiartist or psycologist, who would be in the drivers seat? [Re: batman returns]
    #14480075 -

Did someone mention 'driver's seat' and 'tripping'?



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Re: Psychiartist or psycologist, who would be in the drivers seat? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #14480484 -

The drive through car wash I go to looks like that. :whoa:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Shop: North Spore Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

General Interest > Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology
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