Home | Community | Message Board
You are not signed in.
Sign In New Account
Forum Index Search Posts Trusted Vendors Highlights Galleries FAQ User List Chat Store Random Growery

PlanetSpores.ca
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.

Community > The Pub
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
Education in formal logic should be compulsory
    #13883165 -

I don't know about any of you, but during my career in public school, the extent of my education in logic was basically the equivalent in Posh Logic, and the subject [of logic] was never expanded upon or even mentioned after the third grade.

I try to avoid saying anything that might cause someone to see me as a conspiracy theorist, however, I find this fact to be quite suspect. Could it be that certain powerful/wealthy groups of individuals have intentionally construed the education system to be the way it is (IE, we fail to receive an education in logic in order that we might be fooled more easily, we are required to make the use of standardized testing despite all of the evidence against its effectiveness, we are required to pass higher level math, which simply irrelevant to almost everyone but is also conducive to increasing the drop-out rate among the poor, etc.) in order to maintain the status quo?


A study of any essentially any formal academic topic requires the student to employ the use of logic; however, a study of logic does not necessitate the employment of any academic topics beyond itself. In other words, you need to know when something you are doing or saying 'makes sense' logically in order to understand and perform formal science (and you also need to know how to express the fact that it makes sense), but you do not need to have any knowledge of formal science in order to understand and perform logic.

Can anyone offer me a compelling argument as to why formal logic education should not be compulsory? Perhaps a few of you can, but I'd be willing to bet a much greater percentage of you would be able to (and the arguments would be of higher quality) if you had received one.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Education in formal logic should be compulsory [Re: morrowasted]
    #13883181 -

Good logic shouldn't have to be taught, if you don't know it, then there are classes for people like that.  I don't need a class to have solid logic.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Education in formal logic should be compulsory [Re: morrowasted]
    #13883195 -

I agree with you and I wish I had been taught it in grade school. I understand it better now, but for much of the time I thought I knew what formal logic was I actually didn't. ("Posh logic" is a great expression, BTW.)

Do they actually teach college courses on formal logic? Because I'd like to take one.

I don't think there's any kind of aggressive campaign being waged to dumb down the public. However, I do think the elected officials increasingly don't give a fuck about public welfare or literacy, and the public education system is eroding because so few people are willing to fight for it. This is probably because most people in public schools are not rich and have limited time for esoteric politics, while the rich are going to well-funded private schools.

Have you ever noticed that virtually every proposal to "fix education" our policymakers push involves private school vouchers? These guys just don't give a fuck.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Education in formal logic should be compulsory [Re: ShroomyJohn]
    #13883199 -

ShroomyJohn said:
Good logic shouldn't have to be taught, if you don't know it, then there are classes for people like that.  I don't need a class to have solid logic.


It is true that logic is an intuitive process

You're entirely correct that the "rules" of logical manipulation are basically intuitive. Everyone knows that if A implies B, and you know is A true, then B is going to be true as well. That is called the rule of Modus Ponens, they just don't know that is has a name and that someone has actually taken the time to describe why the intuitive assumption they just made is actually okay to make.

However- if you learn formal logic, you will increase your ability and speed at constructing complicated arguments as well as the speed at which you can do so. While most people know that "A->B, A |- B" makes sense logically, the problem is, many of those same people will make the error of thinking that if you have A->B and -B, you get -A. If someone, for example, a salesman, or politician, is trying to persuade you of something, they will often employ fuzzy logic such as the above as a shortcut to getting you to do what they want.

Street smarts is, in my opinion, a slang term for 'having a natural gift for performing logic intuitively'

Many people who are not 'from the streets' have street smarts, and many people who are from the streets do not. Street smarts basically implies that you know when you're being tricked and you know who is trustworthy- that is intuitive logic.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Education in formal logic should be compulsory [Re: morrowasted]
    #13883270 -

I've never taken a class on formal logic, but I'd agree it's fairly important. Logic is mostly what got me through school. People thought I was smart because I never studied and did well on tests, but really I was just good at taking them- something I attribute to using basic logic and the wonderful nature of schools basing 95% of their tests around 4 choice questions.


--------------------
That's me on the street with a violin under my chin. Playing with a grin, singing gibberish.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Education in formal logic should be compulsory [Re: morrowasted]
    #13883414 -

School does not teach logic for the most part. It teaches how to memorize and parrot and not question things.


--------------------

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Education in formal logic should be compulsory [Re: morrowasted]
    #13883490 -

Ill agree with the teaching of logic, though high school would be a better place.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Education in formal logic should be compulsory [Re: Chespirito]
    #13883567 -

what about mathematical proofs...  that's logic.  i guess that's not qualitative data tho.

engineers will tell you "don't use big words, and don't express overly complex thoughts.  keep it simple and infallible."

hmm, hey i guess you're right...


--------------------
uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhmmmm... ... ...


ok.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Education in formal logic should be compulsory [Re: stimpson]
    #13885078 -

F0SS1L said:
I've never taken a class on formal logic, but I'd agree it's fairly important. Logic is mostly what got me through school. People thought I was smart because I never studied and did well on tests, but really I was just good at taking them- something I attribute to using basic logic and the wonderful nature of schools basing 95% of their tests around 4 choice questions.

ditto.

stimpson said:
what about mathematical proofs...  that's logic.  i guess that's not qualitative data tho.

engineers will tell you "don't use big words, and don't express overly complex thoughts.  keep it simple and infallible."

hmm, hey i guess you're right...


Engineers don't use big words or make hard-to-defend assertions simply because it doing so has no relevance to them. Engineering is concerned with maximizing efficiency and internal consistency. Why have two words that can represent a single idea if the differing connotations between them are irrelevant to your practice?

Mathematical proofs are largely irrelevant to those of us who do not choose a math-related career. Language based argumentation is much more common and widely applicable.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Education in formal logic should be compulsory [Re: Chespirito]
    #13885188 -

Chespirito said:
Ill agree with the teaching of logic, though high school would be a better place.


In my opinion... if a 4th grader can memorize PEMDAS for the order of operations and a 144-item (12x12) multiplication table (both of which I had to do in public school), he can also memorize 10 measly inference rules of logic. It really isn't hard at all.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Education in formal logic should be compulsory [Re: morrowasted]
    #13885266 -

Logic should be the foundation of academics, period.

Logistics and math are the only two absolutely pure subjects, and all other subjects require the use of one, the other, or both to practice. If math is a required subject, so should logic.

I, too, am told I'm extremely smart, but really it's just because I have a lot of knowledge and the logic to work things out based on what I know.

The ability to reason is crucial to intelligence, and yet is only indirectly taught. Education wouldn't be so daunting if students were instructed in the thing that makes us "smart" people seem so intelligent.


--------------------


My blog, please support by giving it a look whenever you can, even if it's not interesting to you.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale

Community > The Pub
Threaded Mode Threaded  Previous topic Previous  View all topics Index  Next topic Next 

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Logic
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 all )		 Smallworlds 8,160 140 07/29/05 03:53 PM
by Smallworlds
* Can God... *DELETED*
( 1 2 all )		 Room4Shroom 2,585 24 10/14/06 02:45 AM
by Pat Bateman, VP
* She is officialy pregant!
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )		 Vulture 7,759 125 02/24/05 08:58 AM
by mantis
* Best college in Oregon
( 1 2 all )		 Psy Baba 5,641 27 03/28/14 02:54 AM
by Psy Baba
* Lessons In Life, A Formal Apology To My Favorite Community.
( 1 2 3 4 all )		 TM 4,121 67 05/02/07 02:13 AM
by Psilocybeingzz
* The United Stated Educational System
( 1 2 3 all )		 OneMoreRobot3021 5,151 43 11/06/06 11:47 PM
by Colbadol
* A Quiet yet Educational Interview w/Joshua
( 1 2 all )		 World Spirit 4,700 28 04/28/05 06:00 PM
by Silversoul
* question about education
( 1 2 all )		 bust 1,717 26 02/28/07 02:30 PM
by memes

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Entire Staff
1,183 topic views. 6 members, 21 guests and 85 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2026 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.034 seconds spending 0.007 seconds on 16 queries.