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Pipe Dreams, etc.
    #1344906 -

i just don't get how they can go and do that... what makes one pipe illegal and another legal? it seems that colorful ones made of glass are illegal now and traditional looking wood ones are ok. it's ridiculous... and what's the point anyway? can we not smoke our cannabis from wooden pipes? or home-made bongs? why are they doing this???? wasting so much energy on a campaign which is based on shaky laws in the first place and which ultimately, does not make any difference at all? i just don't get it.

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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: ]
    #1345456 -

Because they're the Establishment and they have trillions of dollars to throw around and they can. And because only stoners buy artsy glass pipes and bongs and they don't like stoners. And none of the people who voted, bought, or appointed the Establishment into place like stoners either. This won't stop one single person from smoking weed, however, it makes Ashcroft look like a good guy for being 'tough on drugs' and for 'protecting your children from Evil.com."

The way they see it, all drug use is bad, artists who make pipes are profiting from drug use, so they are bad people, so they should be punished by taking away their jobs.


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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: ]
    #1345553 -

It is my prediction that all the cases against these glass pipe providers will be dismissed, acquitted, or thrown out altogether.

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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: ]
    #1345600 -

And in the same manner they banned guns by how they LOOKED. For instance, some "Big Black" AR-15s are banned from new production. But not a wood stock Ruger Mini-14...even though it shoots the same bullet as the AR-15. Like when they wanted to ban bayonet lugs on rifles....is there a big problem with drive-by stabbings? It's all about image. A lot of people have don't have any common sense anymore. It's like that stupid "zero tolerance" bullshit. I'm a big guy. I'm 6'2" and I weigh 285 lbs. My suit is a size 50, waist size 40. My gloves are a size 5XL, my shoes are a size 14 6E. I went to the airport last year and they took my silver gripper tweezers from my keychain. (They're the best tweezers in the world, you can get em at: http://www.slivergripper.ca) Like someone my size would use tweezers for a weapon? But I've heard that grandma's knitting needles are ok. Like a pen or sharp pencil wouldn't be a better weapon?


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WARNING chronicshroom will rip you off! Don't trade with him! I sent him 20 spore syringes and he never sent me anything.

Edited by kb73 (03/01/03 07:56 PM)

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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: Xibalba]
    #1345634 -

Quote:
Because they're the Establishment and they have trillions of dollars to throw around and they can. And because only stoners buy artsy glass pipes and bongs and they don't like stoners. And none of the people who voted, bought, or appointed the Establishment into place like stoners either. This won't stop one single person from smoking weed, however, it makes Ashcroft look like a good guy for being 'tough on drugs' and for 'protecting your children from Evil.com."

The way they see it, all drug use is bad, artists who make pipes are profiting from drug use, so they are bad people, so they should be punished by taking away their jobs.


The key word is voted. That is the way the majority of American voters feel; and in an electoral democracy, their decision is assumed (correctly or otherwise) to be well-informed. And remember, they can log on to the internet too.

Non-voters knowingly and willingly accept the results of an election, so if only a minority of the eligible population voted; the abstainers are presumed (again, correctly or otherwise) to have a good reason for going along with the participants; ie they may also believe fascism is necessary, but cannot bring themselves to actually vote for it.

And BTW, those voters have determined that the offenders will lose much more than their jobs. They will face up to 3 years in federal prison and $250000 fine.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1345793 -

Quote:
The key word is voted


Well, I said voted, bought, or appointed, and I think the last two are much more important these days. Who voted for John Ashcroft, or the members of the Supreme Court? Appointed. And your vote is really only ever between two people, one from each of two nearly identical political parties, both chosen for greatness by the same massive corporate money machine. Bought.

The system is set up to exclude third party candidates. The people in power are those who can tell the most ingratiating lies, collect the most campaigning funds, and avoid admitting a controversial stand on any issue. They then make decisions on the people's behalf, since this is a 'representative democracy.' It's assumed that if a majority of people voted for someone, then all those people must agree with what the politician later does in office.
That's not true at all. A politician whose policies anyone agreed with completely would have no chance of getting elected. So it's always a matter of picking the lesser of two evils.

Game theory comes into it- if your beliefs are "green," you want Nader to win, but he's only going to win if enough other people vote for him. You don't like Gore, but if Bush wins, it's a worst case scenario. If you vote Nader and other people vote Bush, Gore loses. So you have to vote Gore to keep Bush from winning even though he's not your first choice. This is almost exactly like the Prisoner's Dilemma...
In one explanation- "A group whose members pursue rational self-interest may all end up worse off than a group whose members act contrary to rational self-interest. "

(from your link)
Quote:
If they choose not to act, they might have a good reason. In any case, the voters have made their decision; and we must take it in good faith that the decision was well informed.



Assuming the masses are ignorant and powerless is, in my opinion, charitably giving them the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I would have to assume that the majority of this country consists of FUCKING ASSHOLES who I would not piss on to extinguish were they burning to death.

I'm already pretty cynical and have a bleak view of human nature, but not so much that I can believe that at least 150 million people fully understand what Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft & friends are all about and love them for it. We can't be that hopelessly corrupt. ...Can we?

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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: Xibalba]
    #1346126 -

Quote:
Well, I said voted, bought, or appointed, and I think the last two are much more important these days. Who voted for John Ashcroft, or the members of the Supreme Court? Appointed. And your vote is really only ever between two people, one from each of two nearly identical political parties, both chosen for greatness by the same massive corporate money machine. Bought.


The voters still control which candidates are running. If they dont like the "nearly identical corporate candidates", they can remove one of them from the ticket in the primary election. If they are concerned about the supreme court, they can elect an anti-Shrub senate, which kept Pickering off the bench in 2001.

Quote:
You don't like Gore, but if Bush wins, it's a worst case scenario.



That contradicts what you said above about the candidates being "nearly identical".

Quote:
Assuming the masses are ignorant and powerless is, in my opinion, charitably giving them the benefit of the doubt. Otherwise, I would have to assume that the majority of this country consists of FUCKING ASSHOLES who I would not piss on to extinguish were they burning to death.


The latter is correct. If there is any doubt in your mind, visit www.vote.com and check out the results of their past polls; or for that matter, the results of the 2002 election. More specifically, one cannot make an assumption about what other ppl know and what they dont know (ie, calling them "ignorant"). However, i would certainly refuse a call to military service on their behalf.

Quote:
I'm already pretty cynical and have a bleak view of human nature, but not so much that I can believe that at least 150 million people fully understand what Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft & friends are all about and love them for it. We can't be that hopelessly corrupt. ...Can we?


Your forgetting that the 2000 election was unlawfully determined by the right-wing supreme court; however, the court would not have had that opportunity had the voters been more decisive. But then again, the voters also had a chance to remove Shrub from power (but not from office) in last years' congressional election, but chose to do the opposite instead. That means that they agree with the courts' (corrupt) action.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1346419 -

Quote:
Your forgetting that the 2000 election was unlawfully determined by the right-wing supreme court


A lie can be repeated as many times as you like, it is still a lie.

The courts ruling followed federal, state and constitutional law.

Bush won by the law, and the law was followed despite the Gore team trying to change the rules in the middle of the election.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/02/03 10:36 AM)

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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1346716 -

Yes, federal law was followed in 2000 elections....but all according the results in Florida. Considering what a mess the Florida elections turned out to be, it could be easily speculated that the vote count there was not accurate. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if Jeb Bush had something to do with it. However, that is purely speculation on my part, so I can't make any accusations.


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Stand up for your freedoms, join the fight against the War on Drugs!

www.drcnet.org
www.drugpolicyalliance.org
www.drugsense.org

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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: psilo25]
    #1346725 -

There were several recounts done since the election. All but one showed Bush as the winner. Gore wanted selected counties recounted. Even in the recounts Gore asked for.... Bush won. It's easy to find this info, so there's no excuse for people to lie and say Gore won.

And if anyone was to do a little investigating into voter fraud, the Democrats are far more well known for fraud. Such as dead people voting and the like.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

Edited by luvdemshrooms (03/02/03 12:56 PM)

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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1346785 -

Quote:
Quote:
Your forgetting that the 2000 election was unlawfully determined by the right-wing supreme court


A lie can be repeated as many times as you like, it is still a lie.

The courts ruling followed federal, state and constitutional law.

Bush won by the law, and the law was followed despite the Gore team trying to change the rules in the middle of the election.



Not according to Vincent Bugliosi, a much better expert on this topic. Nor did any dispute emerge until after the election, not in the middle.


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

Edited by Annapurna1 (03/02/03 01:35 PM)

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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1346960 -

Quote:
Nor did any dispute emerge until after the election, not in the middle.


You're correct. I should have written after.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: Annapurna1]
    #1347019 -

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Your forgetting that the 2000 election was unlawfully determined by the right-wing supreme court


A lie can be repeated as many times as you like, it is still a lie.

The courts ruling followed federal, state and constitutional law.

Bush won by the law, and the law was followed despite the Gore team trying to change the rules in the middle of the election.


Not according to Vincent Bugliosi, a much better expert on this topic. Nor did any dispute emerge until after the election, not in the middle.


Are you saying Vincent Bugliosi is more an expert on the topic than the Supreme Court?


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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: Ellis Dee]
    #1347032 -

Yes, i would prolly trust Bugliosi more than Scalia & co...


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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...

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Re: Pipe Dreams, etc. [Re: ]
    #1347039 -

BTW, I think the worst case scenerio is that pipes and spores will be illegal in the US. If that happens we'll have to order them from Canada like some canadian sites sell pot seeds from amsterdam.


--------------------
"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon

And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Shop: Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy

General Interest > Political Discussion
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