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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Artificial Isn't * 3
    #12374885 -

There is no such thing as "artificial".  It is a bogus word that doesn't mean what people think it does.  So often people make a distinction between, say, marijuana which they call "natural" and methamphetamine which they call "artificial" or "unnatural".  It is neither.  Trees produce apples, bees make honey, humans make cars, hydrogen bombs, and LSD.  If something exists, it is, by definition, natural.  Weed is not better or worse than meth because weed is "natural"  If it is "better" (whatever that means), it is because of the objective effects that it produces.  You can say that something is man-made, and you can believe that this in some way tells you something about the substance, but that is all "artificial" or "unnatural" means.  Hemlock is quite "natural" and ketamine is quite "artificial" but these labels tell you nothing important.  These things have to be evaluated based on what they actually do.  Unless your personal beliefs are such that you believe man is special and tainted by original sin or something, the fact that a substance only occurs because we make it is almost entirely irrelevant.  I apologize for the rant, but it just gets SO tedious listening to these people try to defend marijuana, for example, by calling it natural (as opposed to meth or PCP).  Why?  Because marijuana IS pretty harmless and potentially beneficial and should be decriminalized and every time some ignorant pot head starts running off at the mouth spouting crap about how it's natural and should be legal because of that, the actual objective truth about why it should be legal get missed. I remember attending a debate while in college between a DEA agent and the editor from High Times.  It was so frustrating and disappointing when the pro-pot guy starts in with this same line of illogical bullshit.  If we are going to get marijuana legalized, as it should be, we must use logic, objectivity, and truth, not some bullshit pseudo-naturalistic, quasi-religious mumbo-jumbo about weed being good because it's "natural".  EVERYTHING IS NATURAL.  It means nothing. 
Do you hear me?

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: CoachG]
    #12374898 -

Thank you.
I don't get why people think that humans are so special that the things that we do aren't nature or natural.


--------------------
The Psychedelic Salon -- Erowid -- MAPS -- The Genesis Generation

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: CoachG]
    #12374904 -

:billymaythumbup: Took the words out of my mouth. Literally.


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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: LSDreamer]
    #12374910 -

LSDreamer said:
:billymaythumbup: Took the words out of my mouth. Literally.


Mine too.
I had things that I was going to respond as I was reading, but RP said them all before I could.

:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:


--------------------
The Psychedelic Salon -- Erowid -- MAPS -- The Genesis Generation

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: bryguy27007]
    #12374939 -

i just had a endoscopy done and while waking up all groggy from the drugs they used my gf said i was ranting to the nurse how every thing is natural . i thought it was pretty funny.


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:tripmolecule::awecid2::awecid2::tripmolecule:]KILLEER TOFFUUUUUU!!!!
love life and live loving


Wizard of the Night

~Peace Love and Hippy Shit~

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: CoachG]
    #12374965 -

Natural= made with out assistance of man

not that nature is perfectly safe, but man made things like drugs have a higher chance of killing you due to human error.

example- I could try and make lsd, but end up making poison and killing you. A mushroom will try and make psilocybin and WILL 100% of the time, never will it mess up its internal synth and create poison and kill you.

on the other hand.... God made dirt and dirt wont hurt you, but god made lions and they will fuck your ass up


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Drinking every now and then helps me to not drink anymore.

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: syke]
    #12375018 -

natural is GOD made.

artifical is MAN made.



I like GOD.

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: syke]
    #12375023 -

syke said:
Natural= made with out assistance of man

not that nature is perfectly safe, but man made things like drugs have a higher chance of killing you due to human error.

example- I could try and make lsd, but end up making poison and killing you. A mushroom will try and make psilocybin and WILL 100% of the time, never will it mess up its internal synth and create poison and kill you.

on the other hand.... God made dirt and dirt wont hurt you, but god made lions and they will fuck your ass up


He's meaning just because something was created without the assistance of man doesnt mean it's some miracle-bearing zen substance. What should matter is what it's direct effects are on the human body, scientifically.


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Exploitation of the unknown is called religion. Recognition of the proven is called science.

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: banquet]
    #12375030 -

GOD is the creator of evolution.

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: banquet]
    #12375075 -

banquet said:
natural is GOD made.

artifical is MAN made.



I like GOD.


Go eat more random cacti in your back yard. See if your god substance is always less harmful than lsd, a man made substance. I know the direct effects of LSD, always. I dont know what a random cactus would give me. It might even be poisonous, and give me death. :shrug:


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Exploitation of the unknown is called religion. Recognition of the proven is called science.

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: banquet]
    #12375101 -

banquet said:
natural is GOD made.

artifical is MAN made.



I like GOD.


:picard:


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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: Trim]
    #12375107 -

What does GOD has to do here?

wtf?

but OP/RP, you're a new winner here.

:thumbup:


--------------------
Carl Sagan - "Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."

---

Robert Pirsig - "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."

---

Brian Cox - "[One] problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense."

Edited by Simplepowa (04/12/10 12:47 AM)

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: Simplepowa]
    #12375114 -

God created universe, he created mechanisms for natural conception.

Man made artifical stuff. you know what i mean


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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: Simplepowa]
    #12375126 -

You believe in God?

You believe everything in nature is ok to eat?

LOL

:facepalm:


--------------------
Carl Sagan - "Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."

---

Robert Pirsig - "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."

---

Brian Cox - "[One] problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense."

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: banquet]
    #12375135 -

banquet said:
God created universe, he created mechanisms for natural conception.

Man made artifical stuff. you know what i mean


Man is not separate from nature.


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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: Simplepowa]
    #12375143 -

Simplepowa said:
You believe in God?

You believe everything in nature is ok to eat?

LOL

:facepalm:



i never said everything in nature is ok to eat? wtf?

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: syke]
    #12375147 -

syke said:
Natural = made with out assistance of man.
Not that nature is perfectly safe, but man made things like drugs have a higher chance of killing you due to human error.

example- I could try and make LSD, but end up making poison and killing you. A mushroom will try and make psilocybin and WILL 100% of the time, never will it mess up its internal synth and create poison and kill you.

on the other hand.... God made dirt and dirt wont hurt you, but god made lions and they will fuck your ass up


You are making that distinction I mentioned which I don't believe exists.  Humans are a result of evolution, like all the other species of organisms on the planet.  Everything made by the rest of life is considered "natural".  Unless you profess to believe man occupies a cosmically special position in the universe, there is no logic to your distinction.  Man is as "natural" as cows, bees, cubes, and banana trees.  It's a species of arrogance that draws a line between Us and the rest of "creation". 
You're also saying that man-made things are more dangerous because, if I understand you, they might not be what they are purported to be...?  That's an entirely different topic and has almost no bearing on this one. 
As for dirt, dude, God didn't make dirt unless he made everything in which case it's pointless to point it out, because he made everything.  A lengthy geological explanation of the origins of dirt is probably not appropriate here, so use Google.  As for it not hurting your, I beg to differ.  How many thousands of people have been killed by mudslides in 3rd world nations?  Once again, Google will tell you. 
Look, I know what most people think they mean when they use the terms, but my point is that they're either mistaken in their understanding of what natural means, or they mean "man-made" and are probably mistaken in their understanding of what information that implies.

To summarize, their is no such thing as "unnatural" or "artificial".  There is such a thing as "man-made" but this in itself tells you almost nothing about the thing it describes.  Rational objectivity and logic are the only real tools we have to derive descriptions that carry any type of useful information for something.  We've got our work cut out for us in terms of working towards the end of what I consider inhumane prohibition.  We need to be as sharp and accurate in our arguments as possible, lest we be deemed dullards who've killed to many brain cells smoking pot.  Suggesting that something is good or ok because it is natural is neither sharp nor accurate.

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: banquet]
    #12375148 -

Well said OP I can't get over it when people make the distinction between "natural" and "man made" compounds. The implication is often "natural is better for you" which is of course bullshit, is sulfuric acid made in a factory any different than sulfuric acid on Venus? No. Is mescaline made by a cactus any differnt than mescaline made in a lab? No.

Humans are animals and if we make something it is natural. There seems to a be a perception that "artificial compounds" are somehow more harmful than ones produced by other organisms, a complete fallacy when you consider that some of the most lethal chemical weapons ever created such as VX nerve agent pale in comparison to the most powerful naturally occurring poison botulinum toxin.


--------------------
"Life without freedom is not life... freedom is life."

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: LSDreamer]
    #12375152 -

LSDreamer said:
banquet said:
God created universe, he created mechanisms for natural conception.

Man made artifical stuff. you know what i mean


Man is not separate from nature.


i never said man is but man made is not natural, e.g a baby is natural, but a robot isn;t, because for making a baby the mechanism was made by GOD.

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Re: Artificial Isn't [Re: banquet]
    #12375153 -

banquet said:
natural is GOD made.

artifical is MAN made.



I like GOD.


?

Maybe it is my speculation

:lol:

time to sleep


--------------------
Carl Sagan - "Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."

---

Robert Pirsig - "When one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."

---

Brian Cox - "[One] problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it. The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense."

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Shop: Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Sporeworks.EU Spores for European Microscopy   Mushroom-Hut Mono Tub Substrate

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