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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: Neuron]
    #11320502 -

Neuron said:
Silversoul said:
niteowl said:
Evolution has been proven, so has continental drift.
These are things that we can see happening and measure.


Were you there?  Did you see the different species evolve into other species?  The evidence for past climates is equally indirect, yet equally certain.

Quote:
I never said that I don't believe the earth goes through climate changes, quite the opposite actually.

Just that we do not know what the temps of the earth were prior to humans recording it. Those numbers are educated guesses, not facts.


Tree rings, ice core samples, sedimentary layers, fossil records, etc.:  These are all fairly accurate indicators of past climate.  You don't know what you're talking about.


ROFL SilverSoul is totally PWNING the old man.



Really how do you figure that.

All he said was that climate changes, and I agreed with him.
Scientists DO NOT KNOW what the temps were 100,000 years ago

What they have is an educated guess as to what the temps were, nothing factual


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: Conservationist]
    #11320517 -

Conservationist said:
Silversoul said:
Prisoner#1 said:
how can that be when they dont deal in hard facts, at what temperature
does dust or pollen settle in the ice, at what temperature is a trees
growth rate affected... they deal in guesswork and estimates


These are all things which we can observe today, and extrapolate from that to similar phenomena from the past.  We know how temperature affects the growth of tree rings.  We know what affect they have on soil.  We know what species thrive in which temperatures.  It's actually quite ironic that scientists can figure out more about the climate 1,000 years ago than a meteorologist can figure out about what the weather's going to be like tomorrow.


It's all bullshit anyway, because humanity's never going to take effective action to avert this crisis. I drive a giant SUV because I know that no matter what I do, the rest of these people will do nothing, and so we are totally fucking doomed.




It starts at an individual level...

and lol @ these people who talk about driving hummers and SUV's like their hot shit. If you want to pay 80 dollars to fill up your tank, be my guest. Just means your a sucker.


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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: Neuron]
    #11320678 -

Neuron said:
ROFL SilverSoul is totally PWNING the old man.


Agreed.  His distinction between observed facts and educated guesses is meaningless.  Everything is a guess using his definition, even the existence of the moon.

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #11320706 -

niteowl said:
Scientists DO NOT KNOW what the temps were 100,000 years ago

What they have is an educated guess as to what the temps were, nothing factual


Ice cores?  Yes, you can know factually.  Last year in my dendrochronology class we used skeleton plots and tree rings to go back in time and learn about the climate over time.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: Arden]
    #11320718 -

Quote:
No one has any idea what is really going on.


THANK YOU!


Fuck, Thank You.

That is the best point that can be made in a thread like this.

I'm so tired of hearing blahblah "SCIENTIFIC FACT" blahblahblah

Oh you said the words "Scientific Fact"?  Well in that case, you must be right! Why didn't you say so sooner.

Of course it's theory.  This is the essence of science.  This is why money exists for climate science.  This is why people make their living in climate science.  And considering how dynamic and multi-causal the climate is it's probably one of the most theoretic sciences there is.

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: Viveka]
    #11320742 -

Now you are just getting into philosophy that "know one knows whats going on"

But if you want to be an educated human being you know that there is strong scientific evidence of the green house effect catalyzing global warming, and subsequently driving climate to change faster.  Soo fast that evolution is not going to keep up, thus driving some species to instinction.  Its not a universal fact.  But if you are a reasonable human being you can say with high confidence that this is what is going to happen if we continue to pump CO2 in the sky.  Period.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: Silversoul]
    #11320796 -

Silversoul said:
We know how temperature affects the growth of tree rings.


and I was asking that, not asking if 'we' knew how it affects it


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #11320814 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
niteowl said:
Scientists DO NOT KNOW what the temps were 100,000 years ago

What they have is an educated guess as to what the temps were, nothing factual


Ice cores?  Yes, you can know factually.  Last year in my dendrochronology class we used skeleton plots and tree rings to go back in time and learn about the climate over time.


OK, so what was the temperature in North America in OCT of 100,000 BC

you can make an educated guess as to what the temp
might have been but you do not know for sure

and that is all that I am saying, man

we can make an approximation of the temps but we do not really know the actual degree F in Oct 100,000 BC


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: Brainiac]
    #11320828 -

Quote:
We wont have to worry about heating up, when this happens..

:stoned:



Oh, man.  Everyone should watch this just to hear the audio in the last few minutes.  I haven't had such a good laugh all day.

Especially at the end when his seemingly never ending rant about death is abruptly terminated...

"...behold how that corpse first becomes yellow, and then black.  Afterwards the whole body is covered with a white and disgusting mold.  Then there issues forth a slime which flows to the Earth.  In that corruption[END OF VIDEO]"

:rofl2:

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #11320854 -

Maybe not 100,000 years.  But we can go back about 7000 in some tree rings.  ice cores go way further back.  We can get a very good idea about global temperatures.  And with tree rings you can go back and study droughts, fires, floods so forth and so on.  Tree rings can tell you A LOT about ancient climate.


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #11320889 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
Maybe not 100,000 years.  But we can go back about 7000 in some tree rings.  ice cores go way further back.  We can get a very good idea about global temperatures.  And with tree rings you can go back and study droughts, fires, floods so forth and so on.  Tree rings can tell you A LOT about ancient climate.


QFT. Niteowl doesn't know when to give up.

Stop acting like Science doesn't have a clue. We may not have an EXACT but it's fucking damn closer than you will ever get at understanding what it was like 100,000 years ago.

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #11320893 -

You guys just keep proving my point and for some reason still want to argue about it.

Cognitive_Shift said:
We can get a very good idea about global temperatures.


A very good idea is not factual, it is an educated guess :imslow:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #11320931 -

niteowl said:
You guys just keep proving my point and for some reason still want to argue about it.

Cognitive_Shift said:
We can get a very good idea about global temperatures.


A very good idea is not factual, it is an educated guess :imslow:


An educated guess based on factual data.  Not just some guy who prolly knows nothing about the science of climate change, backing up a side based on emotion, and no real data or that you think scientist all lie and make stuff up.  Its nothing personal, your one of my favorite pubbers here on the boards.  I am just telling you what i have learned from classes on this exact subject:shrug:


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L'enfer est plein de bonnes volontés et désirs

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #11320933 -

niteowl said:
You guys just keep proving my point and for some reason still want to argue about it.

Cognitive_Shift said:
We can get a very good idea about global temperatures.


A very good idea is not factual, it is an educated guess :imslow:


It's not a GUESS. There is SCIENCE behind it and REASONS.

Do you know what an educated guess is? It's just making up bullshit

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #11320993 -

i am confused, if a meteor could do that than how in the hell did we survive the last hit of the dinosaurs is what i want to know.
this video either pointless or disproves the extinction of dinosaurs.

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #11321078 -

Cognitive_Shift said:
An educated guess based on factual data.  Not just some guy who prolly knows nothing about the science of climate change, backing up a side based on emotion, and no real data or that you think scientist all lie and make stuff up.  Its nothing personal, your one of my favorite pubbers here on the boards.  I am just telling you what i have learned from classes on this exact subject:shrug:


Yea, I know what an educated guess is.
I also know that an educated guess is just that, our best guess based on the evidence at hand
The thing is we never have all the evidence to say for sure WTF happened thousands of years ago

When Neuron said "The earth's temperature was only 4 degrees cooler than it is today"

That is an educated guess, not a scientific FACT
that number could easily have been 3, 3.25, 3.5, 3.75, 4.25, 4.5, 4.75 or 5
we simply do not know for sure, it is just our best guess

That is all that I have claimed all through this thread.
We do not know for sure what the temps were over the history of the planet
The farther back we go, the less accurate our guesses are.

So we can claim that the earth has for sure gone through climate changes
We just can not say for sure what the actual temps were in the distant past


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #11321083 -

niteowl said:
OK, so what was the temperature in North America in OCT of 100,000 BC

you can make an educated guess as to what the temp
might have been but you do not know for sure

and that is all that I am saying, man

we can make an approximation of the temps but we do not really know the actual degree F in Oct 100,000 BC


Nor can we really know the actual degree F right now in Oct.  All such data is inferred from observation and has error bars.  Thats how all science works.  We infer the average temperature over some interval in time in the distant past by observing the properties of an ice core, this inference has error bars associated with it.  We infer the average temperature over some interval in the near past (known as the 'present') by observing the properties of a thermometer, this inference also has error bars associated with it.

If you want to call the inferences we make from observations 'educated guesses' that is your prerogative, but it belittles the process and the results.  Regardless, there is no fundamental/philosophical difference between inferring the temperature in the past and the temperature in the 'present'.  So you should adopt a consistent language and call it an educated guess every time you read the temperature off of a thermometer.

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: DieCommie]
    #11321106 -

:handth:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: niteowl]
    #11321129 -

Your applauding me attacking your ridiculous position?  Ok, thanks!

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Re: Global Warming Hoax [Re: DieCommie]
    #11321182 -

My position has always been that there is no real facts just our best guess.


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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