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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can "trip" harder while sober than from smoking DMT. Proof.
    #10867422 -

Proof of concept:

You are on the world's most thrilling roller coaster.
Coaster, the Shroomery poster, is rolling in the seat next to you.
You: "Sup, Coaster?"
Coaster: "Ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!"
Then you are shot of your spring-loaded seat.
Into transparent rocket about to blast off in 0.2 milliseconds.
At this exact moment, the sun is rising.
The rocket has the interior of a disco club.
The rocket is not transparent, that was an illusion.
Everything inside the rocket is warped and shifting (mirrors?).
Looney Tunes cartoon characters are dancing in front of you.
Yes, literally 2D cartoon characters that disappear if you attempt to look at them from the "side".
You are flying through space towards the moon (visible from windows in the dance club rocket).
You reach the moon in 3 minutes.
You can breathe on the moon.
It smells like a zebra's wet pussy.
A gigantic whirlpool made of glowing jello appears and you are now whirling through it.
It has a mandelbrot fractal texture.
You are whirling through a mandelbrot fractal texture.
You are weightless and it feels as if your body is a kernel of popcorn.
Pop.
Everything goes black...
You are now on a street where cars are trees and trees are cars.
The street is not inside a microwave.
Wait, what?
The road is melting and shifting into sand.
The concept of a road or sand makes no sense in this dimension.
You are laughing psychotically and then realize that your vocal chords have been moved through your feet.
You have to talk to walk.
Or laugh.
Comedians are like crutches.
You are now on a desert that expands as far as the eye can see.
The sky looks like a van gogh painting and you feel so cold.
Like a painting made of ice cream.
Mmmm, ice cream.
You're Homer Simpson?
D'oh!
The desert rapidly shrinks.


You were on your bed listening to music for the entire time and this was all done by altering your visual, aural, tactile, olfactory, and gustatory environment.

I thought of this specific (not best, not general, not usual) example 2 seconds before I decided to post this thread. I am completely convinced that a system capable of altering our real environment through the use of powerful illusions could create remarkable trips that rival or surpass even DMT's capabilities.

Disagree with me respectfully (please, I'm late and it's tired) and I will defend my thoughts respectfully.

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can "trip" harder while sober than from smoking DMT. Proof. [Re: seek]
    #10867446 -

There is a widely known theory that DMT is produced in the pineal gland of the brain during heavy REM sleep, meditation experiences and near-death experiences. So in turn, your theory could actually be because of DMT


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To open your mind you must close your eyes--->Perception is key<---Reality is not Actualality

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can "trip" harder while sober than from smoking DMT. Proof. [Re: seek]
    #10867448 -

I must add that the experience(s) I posted is(are) not supposed to be interpreted[actually, you can interpret them any way you want. What if you barely spoke English? What if you're a 12 year old man on the internet reading a 21 year old baby's post?] as (a) harder / better / more intense experience(s) than a DMT trip. Just a proof of concept of the possibilities that imagination can allow and that you could make an experience far more powerful than the one I've posted if you had the ability to create such experiences in the first place.

Someone who actually tripped on DMT could recreate it with enough time and skill and then remix + randomize it.

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can "trip" harder while sober than from smoking DMT. Proof. [Re: seek]
    #10867449 -

ok but what is the system?


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People never seem to know what they least suspect is coming next.

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can "trip" harder while sober than from smoking DMT. Proof. [Re: quiksilver98]
    #10867457 -

quiksilver98 said:
There is a widely known theory that DMT is produced in the pineal gland of the brain during heavy REM sleep, meditation experiences and near-death experiences. So in turn, your theory could actually be because of DMT


This is exactly what I was thinking. Something of this nature could bring out the potential of dreaming, meditation and near death experiences then amplify and enhance it 10-fold (what the hell does "10" even mean in this discussion? nothing. but why does it still make sense?).

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: dummy]
    #10867499 -

dummy said:
ok but what is the system?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_reality is the current prototype. Also, I'd say that sensory deprivation tanks and high-end entertainment devices can be used to get a sense of the possibilities. Do not think of entertainment as merely HD Television and high-end speakers. Think something that change the aromas in a room, something that distort your perception of space and time, anti-gravity, etc.

My first guess on how to begin creating this system would be to cross-link senses in an unconventional ways:
* Any time you "see" the color blue, you "feel" fuzzy and "taste" orange soda.
* When you step to the left, the entire room turns into a circus and "feel" the sensation of being pushed back into a never ending chasm.
* When you step to the right, you turn into a giant computer and the entire world is destroyed. You can hear it. It sounds quite real.

Something that can reproduce these illusions and engulf you in them would be worthy of being called the system.

How would you distort a sober person's perception of time reliably? Time dilation could be recreated if it were possible to slow down every single event in someone's life or make it seem as if everything has been slowed down. It would require a complete recreation of their environment, and then playing it back at half speed or slower while keeping some things (like music) slowed down maybe to maybe 90% and then gradually slow it down more while retaining pitch. So you can play the song and it randomly slows to down to a near complete halt and you hear the end (with reverb) as dragging on for years.

You'd also have to slow the person down. Slowing down their movement, breathing and heart rate artificially would help. Even slowing down their speech. This could be done with suggestion, meditation, and relaxation techniques and some kind of device that restrained them a bit.

You could make life slower by using anti-gravity. Throw something and it seems to take forever to fall. Because it is taking forever.

By using all these illusory methods, I can capture 10 seconds of your life and make it take an entire hour. Even while completely sober, it will feel as if the 10 seconds took an hour. You will not feel as if you experienced an hour of a 10 second recreation of your life. You will be slowed as well and you will completely believe that you just experienced 10 seconds but it "felt" like an hour.

Time dilation can be reliably recreated for sober people. With such a system, you can have everyone in a room (why stop there? synchronize "mass trips" involving people over the internet and outside the room) experiencing the same level of time dilation or random levels of time dilation or measured levels (one person has time slowed down half, another person has it slowed down by a quarter, another person by an eigth and all these people interact with each other in "real-time" and nothing is messed up).

Edited by seek (08/15/09 10:45 PM)

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: seek]
    #10867550 -

Remember what a psychedelic experience "is."

Think of this:
If life was like a shroom trip all the time and you had take anti-shrooms in order to go back to "reality" wouldn't we call that tripping?

When you trip, you could be laying down on a bed and flying through the cosmos. What if you actually were flying through the cosmos (either in actuality or via kinesthetic illusion) and then you took a drug that made you feel as if you were laying down on your bed?

We can test this by putting someone on a rollercoaster then giving them some kind of drug that makes them feel as if they're not moving, or encasing them in some kind of cage that makes it feel as if they're NOT on a rollercoaster even though they are. Put two people side by side. One in the caged seat, another in a normal seat. One person will say "Whoo!" when we ask them what it was like and the other will respond with "Meh."

It's possible to feel as if you ARE on a rollercoaster when you actually aren't. It would require advanced technology, but it's possible.

You know it's possible. I know it's possible. Everyone knows it's possible.

None of this is a matter of if, this is all a matter of how and when.

You could even combine such experiences with psychedelics to have compound trips where you're two different realities away from the default reality.

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: seek]
    #10867589 -

This is like Robert Anton Wilson to the extreme...Create your own reality...Create your own trip using your own mind.....Trippy idea...  :awetrippie: 


However, due to my laziness I would prefer simply meditation...But let me know if you find a way to change your perception in a fundamentally warped way...


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If you're frightened of dying and  you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: JackofSpades]
    #10867678 -

Here is a small example, when I get anxiety, I tend to look around and analyze, everything seems kinda dreamy and brightly colored, almost fake.....


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To open your mind you must close your eyes--->Perception is key<---Reality is not Actualality

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: quiksilver98]
    #10867797 -

quiksilver98 said:
Here is a small example, when I get anxiety, I tend to look around and analyze, everything seems kinda dreamy and brightly colored, almost fake.....


Great idea! Reverse engineering your emotional state and using your environment to suggest how you should feel. Great.

Perhaps we can link moods to audio, scents, and colors? Textures can add realism to this.

Think of capturing the experience of being at the beach: water crashing, (Sunlight or Moonlight), blanket of warmth alternating with chilly breezes, sand under your feet when you move (what does it "feel" like to walk on sand, to move on sand?), children and adults laughing about things you can't quite make out, the sight of people in their natural bodies and not covered up with artificial clothes, the smell of saltwater and rocks and sand and even the occasional cooking [think summer foods].

All this could be recreated in the room. I'm sure of it.

Chilly breezes can be recreated and they don't even have to rustle your paper. The same way you direct light to ONE specific area can be done with air currents. A "spotlight" air conditioner / fan (it has to be both. you already know why and you can already imagine how such a device would work). It conditions the air but only towards an individual. You can have many. They can all be small but powerful for precise control (this is how you would recreate wind accurately, not just one spotlight ac/fan). You can have them at different temperatures that vary by as little as one-hundredth of a degree. This can even save you money by being turned on automatically when you walk into a room. There's NO NEED to air condition an entire room in many cases, so individual air condition would be superior to our current system.

One person can have "still" air. Another person can have alternating air. Another person can have a storm around them. You can even add mist and give the sensation of rain (but remember, it's all an illusion, albeit an incredibly powerful one).

What if people could take their specific preference house to house? So when I visit my friends they can see that I am in a happy or sad mood before I even open my mouth. We could even share these feelings with each other so you can "feel" what I feel, either by having my exact preferences switched with yours, or by translating my happiness with your happiness. A beach can be happy for me, a forest can be happy for you.

You would not literally put sand in your room, but what if you had a carpet that could harden and soften in precise ways? A carpet that feels like grass when you want to have a picnic and feels like marble when you feel like looking at art or... that feels like sand when you want to be happy. Beach happy. Be happy.

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: seek]
    #10867874 -

The carpet would not be thin. It would be able to rise and fall to add realistic depth to different environments. When you walk on soft mushy ground, it's not simply a mushy surface, but a surface that you have to lift your foot higher to walk through. A carpet that merely imitated the texture of sand would feel like sand paper. A carpet that actually rose and fell with your steps would feel like walking on a beach.

How would we create such a system? How would we make something like that feasible? It would be an extremely difficult thing to create but I'm already having some ideas for how it would work. Remember that this is all an illusion.

You only need the bare minimum to recreate an experience. Yes... it would be sand only a small circular area where your feet are. The rest would merely appear to be sand. Since you can't feel the other sand and since it feels so realistic under your feet, your brain has no choice but to accept the entire floor as sand.

Because any time you walk to another area of the carpet, it feels like real sand. Even if you jump, you don't see the circular patch of virtual sand move, it looks and feels as if your entire room has sand on the floor and you have no way of knowing that it does not by walking, laying down, or using objects to touch other parts of the floor.

Even though it is a remarkably persistent illusion (also known as reality), you are forced to accept that it is reality (also known as a remarkably persistent illusion).

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: seek]
    #10867992 -

You were never born because you never didn't exist. Never say never.


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haha


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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: seek]
    #10868207 -

seek said:
Remember what a psychedelic experience "is."

Think of this:
If life was like a shroom trip all the time and you had take anti-shrooms in order to go back to "reality" wouldn't we call that tripping?

When you trip, you could be laying down on a bed and flying through the cosmos. What if you actually were flying through the cosmos (either in actuality or via kinesthetic illusion) and then you took a drug that made you feel as if you were laying down on your bed?

We can test this by putting someone on a rollercoaster then giving them some kind of drug that makes them feel as if they're not moving, or encasing them in some kind of cage that makes it feel as if they're NOT on a rollercoaster even though they are. Put two people side by side. One in the caged seat, another in a normal seat. One person will say "Whoo!" when we ask them what it was like and the other will respond with "Meh."

It's possible to feel as if you ARE on a rollercoaster when you actually aren't. It would require advanced technology, but it's possible.

You know it's possible. I know it's possible. Everyone knows it's possible.

None of this is a matter of if, this is all a matter of how and when.

You could even combine such experiences with psychedelics to have compound trips where you're two different realities away from the default reality.



I completely agree.

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: Munkey106]
    #10869640 -

It depends how you define 'trip'.
If it's just having your senses all mixed up and experiencing crazy things than yea, your probably right.

But to me, the more important aspect of tripping is the subtle insights and changes in my thought patterns. Would this part be replicated by this system you talk about, or would we end up with amazing- but empty- pictures to look at?


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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #10869641 -

DMT is what makes us have dreams dude.
Thats the heaviest trip ever.


--------------------


WakaWaka

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #10869649 -

Interesting post :smile:

I've noticed when I'm tired I am an incredibly visual person - I see tons of things when I close my eyes but they're not very sharp and hard to distinguish from one another, psychedelics often times just bring these images to life.


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koods said:
Young male going by the name "Bassfreak" entered Worcester General complaining of a sharp pain in his buttock region after attending EDM event. Attending physician considered a possible diagnosis of acute rave anus, but upon further investigation it was determined there was nothing cute about patient's anus.
Life-long trip report

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: pfxtc]
    #10869703 -

pfxtc said:
Interesting post :smile:

I've noticed when I'm tired I am an incredibly visual person - I see tons of things when I close my eyes but they're not very sharp and hard to distinguish from one another, psychedelics often times just bring these images to life.


Same here man. I feel like right before I go to sleep I can see 360 degree vision of the outside world when I close my eyes.


--------------------


WakaWaka

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: pfxtc]
    #10870055 -

pfxtc said:
Interesting post :smile:

I've noticed when I'm tired I am an incredibly visual person - I see tons of things when I close my eyes but they're not very sharp and hard to distinguish from one another, psychedelics often times just bring these images to life.


Thats called Hypnagogic Imagery

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: cpw1971]
    #10871646 -

Ive read this post a few times over the last day or so. I do not understand any of it. I kind of understand what you mean just by the title... after that shit gets strange... So you and coaster are on a roller coaster, then I get lost. Id really like to understand what you are talking about. Seriously, how is this proof of anything? It sounds like some strange hypothesis, but I really dont understand much of it so I could be wrong.


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My past post are not necessarily reflections of my current opinions.

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Re: I'm convinced, beyond any doubt, that we can [Re: WorldWideWInton]
    #10880838 -

Quote:
Even though it is a remarkably persistent illusion (also known as reality), you are forced to accept that it is reality (also known as a remarkably persistent illusion).


I like this. :thumbup:

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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