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This Society Rules
    #10074580 -

We have an unprecedented amount of personal and intellectual freedom in the course of human history.

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Epigallo]
    #10074586 -

That will be more true as time goes on.


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Atheist Chat

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Epigallo]
    #10074587 -

I agree.  :thumbup:

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: DieCommie]
    #10074657 -

which society? The U.S. or the ShrOoMerY?

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: skatealex2]
    #10074662 -

Describe how modern society has more personal and intellectual freedom than a hunter-gatherer society.

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: TypicalTripper]
    #10074673 -

you're kidding, right?

you do realize if you lived as a hunter-gatherer you wouldn't have time to do anything but hunt and gather, to continually survive?

there's a reason philosophy didn't develop until ancient greece/ancient india/ancient china/etc.


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Re: This Society Rules [Re: TypicalTripper]
    #10074681 -

are you frickin' kidding me? have you seen the machigenga tribe on mark and olly by chance? their rigidity of belief and cultural opacity far supercedes even the dumbest americans

the real world skatealex2

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: TypicalTripper]
    #10074700 -

TypicalTripper said:
Describe how modern society has more personal and intellectual freedom than a hunter-gatherer society.



:lol:  Seriously... they already said it.. but hunter/gatherer societies had among the least personal and intellectual freedoms of any society.  Thats why people all over the world abandoned that way of life.

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Epigallo]
    #10074702 -

Nah man in a hunter gatherer society we'd all just be walking around a perpetual orchard plucking fruit from the trees whenever we want it, and all of the animals would live in peace and harmony with us. Rabbits would willingly jump into our pots to feed us because the whole world would be one great big hippie love fest.;)


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The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Epigallo]
    #10074709 -

In some ways society is very nice, how we have the freedom to do what we want for the most part.  I am afraid of the government turning into big brother one day........... but I believe as we advance- future president's are more likely to be more liberal then the other way around :wink: maybe Ron Paul will win next election :thumbup:

I don't like that we are so dependent on money- but I am unsure what other system can be done that everyone would agree with :confused:





***The fact that we have the freedom to go on message boards like this and talk about whatever we want to with whoever is an amazing thing!! :thumbup: unlike some other countries.. it is great that I can scream FUCK THE GOVERNMENT and not get arrested

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: skatealex2]
    #10074714 -

Yes, future presidents will be more liberal, just like Ron Paul. :facepalm:


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The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: blewmeanie]
    #10074716 -

blewmeanie said:
Nah man in a hunter gatherer society we'd all just be walking around a perpetual orchard plucking fruit from the trees whenever we want it, and all of the animals would live in peace and harmony with us. Rabbits would willingly jump into our pots to feed us because the whole world would be one great big hippie love fest.;)


:lol:


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Re: This Society Rules [Re: blewmeanie]
    #10074769 -

blewmeanie said:
Yes, future presidents will be more liberal, just like Ron Paul. :facepalm:


fer cereal.

i can't stand internet libertarians who don't seem to understand that if we enacted something like ron paul's platform, this would be a corporate nation-state in 10 minutes flat.

i agree, govt is not the answer to most problems. and our current govt is a corrupt and bloated piece of shit. but take away govt regulation, and with our current population's (lack) of interest in self-determination, you'll open the flood-gates for multi-national corporations feeling free to do whatever the fuck they want.

libertarianism is for rich assholes who don't like to share. anarcho-syndicalism is for people who believe in the self-unfolding of the species. both reject top-down govt, but intention goes a long way.


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Re: This Society Rules [Re: DieCommie]
    #10074773 -

Qubit said:
TypicalTripper said:
Describe how modern society has more personal and intellectual freedom than a hunter-gatherer society.



:lol:  Seriously... they already said it.. but hunter/gatherer societies had among the least personal and intellectual freedoms of any society.  Thats why people all over the world abandoned that way of life.


Well, the Natives of this land(USA), the Celtics, along with the people who live in the Himalayas had rich histories and those in the latter group still have rather primitive societies. Philosophy is a giant cult of personality, with many pseudo-intellectual jar heads that pollute what is actually an individual thing. There may have been little going on in the stone age, when nothing was and we still made stone spears and faught the neanderthal for survival, but thought and culture has been going up and down since Sumeria and maybe before, much of the down from the power of the church, though it's very complicated.

Besides, we have forces like an economy that thrives on menial labor and conformation to a system that oppresses its own people for a dream we find out is a lie as we age, and people that can arrest us for having a plant, while we sit happily in front of the tube to forget that we could just as well loose our jobs and end up on the street where noone will care, because if you are below middle class in the US you are a lazy fuckup to most. Plus, now we have cameras that can see us from space, in school, and they can check on your computer whenever they feel like.

Your one dimensional, wrong opinion is wrong :pedobear:


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Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)

Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Krishna]
    #10074801 -

Krishna said:
blewmeanie said:
Yes, future presidents will be more liberal, just like Ron Paul. :facepalm:


fer cereal.

i can't stand internet libertarians who don't seem to understand that if we enacted something like ron paul's platform, this would be a corporate nation-state in 10 minutes flat.

i agree, govt is not the answer to most problems. and our current govt is a corrupt and bloated piece of shit. but take away govt regulation, and with our current population's (lack) of interest in self-determination, you'll open the flood-gates for multi-national corporations feeling free to do whatever the fuck they want.

libertarianism is for rich assholes who don't like to share. anarcho-syndicalism is for people who believe in the self-unfolding of the species. both reject top-down govt, but intention goes a long way.


interesting. I am not a serious Ron Paul supporter or anything by the way-- and I think he is a bit over the top---- but I like how says things so straight forward and wants to end the war on drugs-----------

i don't think Ron Paul would know how to deal with terrorist situations- which could very possibly happen someday- the next 9/11 or world war- who knows

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Krishna]
    #10075092 -

Krishna said:
you do realize if you lived as a hunter-gatherer you wouldn't have time to do anything but hunt and gather, to continually survive?


Not true.  The time spent hunting/gathering in an egalitarian hunter-gatherer society is not very much, say 4 hours per day or so on average.


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    classic LOVELINE

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Epigallo]
    #10075102 -

You are free. To do as we tell you.
That is all. Carry on.


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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Set]
    #10075123 -

I think this society has gotten kind of good, BUT it had developed a massive problem with self image and that's holding us back. It sounds like hippie bullshit to say "drop your ego and explore" but it's very true right now. Just look at shit like twitter.

It also sucks that most things going on is just shit driven by consumerism which people fall for so easily. That's why it's a good idea to look into marketing at this day and age :wink:


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Remember to cut your nails regularly.


Edited by PyroBurns (03/30/09 04:59 PM)

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Shroomism]
    #10075142 -

:lol: Those NWO sigs crack me up


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    classic LOVELINE

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Set]
    #10075172 -

For real, I want one:awesome:


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The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Set]
    #10075195 -

Set said:
Krishna said:
you do realize if you lived as a hunter-gatherer you wouldn't have time to do anything but hunt and gather, to continually survive?


Not true.  The time spent hunting/gathering in an egalitarian hunter-gatherer society is not very much, say 4 hours per day or so on average.



source? because every anthropology class i've ever taken says different.

sure, if we have agriculture, the time necessary to collect food is drastically reduced. unfortunately, to get agriculture, you have to have specialization, and to get specialization, you have to move away from hunter/gatherer societies to allow people to dedicate their time and efforts to particular tasks.

i think what marx imagined (using technology to enable us to be "hunter/gatherers" without having to hunt or gather) is a hell of a lot more realistic than some bs hippie notion of a return to tribal society, and i don't think marx's end-game is very realistic itself.

2 words - systems complexity.

nothing short of nuclear apocalypse will turn back systems complexity. a smart critical social theorist will recognize this and stop talking about communes (fine for a few individuals, go for it, but unsustainable for the world).


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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Krishna]
    #10075338 -

My source is my Anthropology degree (1/2 focused on physical anth and human origins, the other 1/2 cultural focusing on Mesoamerica).

The example I stated was from an intro to Cultural Anth class (using the San of the Khalahari as an example if I remember correctly), and relates to a band-level society, technically the smallest society.  Of course, as soon as the carrying capacity of the environment is exceeded by the needs of an expanding population agriculture becomes a necessity. 

I didn't intend my previous post to be viewed as a solution, or relevant today (unless a majority of the worlds population disappears), but it is historically accurate when referring to bands of hunter gatherers.


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    classic LOVELINE

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Set]
    #10082721 -

The !Kung are a modern-day egalitarian hunter-gatherer tribe living in a pretty crappy region of Africa, all arable land having been conquered by more numerous sedentary tribes .  Their average work week for all tasks relating to their survival is between 12 and 17 hours. That leaves a lot of free time.

Agriculture was the choice that was necessary to continue population growth instead of regulating the size of the group through exogamy, fission or expulsion.
From agriculture stems sedentary life, surplus , the concept of private property, task specialization (people being fed by the surplus), ideology and state.

It's not like our race knows what it's doing , or why it's on this Earth.  It's not like evolution is a linear progression, of rational choices.  We have not chosen the path we now walk, it's simply the result of climate changes 12 000 years ago that allowed mammals like us to strive and our very creative mind. 

As crazy as it sounds , I'm not sure agriculture was the best choice.

(Edit) P.S. :  It's funny how people think "primitive" life was crappy because people worked their ass off for survival.  But hey , a 60 hour work week to pay off student loans , credit debts , insurance , food and rent is all right as long as you get to choose between 60 channels on TV and get some kind of impression that you have a say on the way things are run.

Edited by TypicalTripper (03/31/09 07:01 PM)

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: TypicalTripper]
    #10082848 -

The shorter work week is a definite advantage. But you are forgetting the 10,000 other things that set us apart from a hunter gatherer society. We have access to principles of mathematics, physics, and psychology and are therefore less constrained to specialisation of finding a few food items and building a few things with sticks and fibrous materials.

You think an isolated tribe isn't prone to ideologies? You are not thinking this through.

You can certainly be lazy and stupid in our society, but that is your prerogative.

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Epigallo]
    #10082865 -

I'm not sure how calculus II and knowing the freezing point of nitrous help you in your daily life , let alone in bushcraft.  There's a shitload of food out there , we just forgot what it looked like , or were pushed into thinking a meal comes frozen in a box in the fridge.

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: TypicalTripper]
    #10082935 -

That's exactly it. You are taking for granted the fact that you know there is more to life than finding food...more than one dimensional survival. We can create layers upon layers of meaning ... and so many tools, if you claim the responsibility to use them.

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Epigallo]
    #10082994 -

You know , the goal to life is what you make it to be.  Some goals are ushered by family, others by culture or society.  Regardless of what they may be , I think everyone finds his own temporary meaning of life or aspirations. 
The only people I've seen that focused solely on one dimensional survival were pretty depressed. 

The human mind can and will think about subjects besides food, which is what makes our life more than finding food.  Call it layers of meaning, I still appreciate them.
Are they not real, even though they are creation of men, if they exist universally in his mind ?

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: TypicalTripper]
    #10083023 -

TypicalTripper said:
The human mind can and will think about subjects besides food, which is what makes our life more than finding food.  Call it layers of meaning, I still appreciate them.
Are they not real, even though they are creation of men, if they exist universally in his mind ?


i think bradley's point (and my point above) is man is only free to begin to seriously contemplate such things when his base needs are accounted for.

i certainly think there is a lot we can learn from pastoralism - indeed, there are projects championed by farmers in the states to go to eastern kenya and learn from the massai, or go to rajasthan and learn from nomadic camel herders, etc - to get a better sense of how these people have held onto sustainability in some of the harshest climates in the world. however, there's a reason there are no great massai philosophers or poets or scientists. not because they don't have the potential, but because the pastoral life takes the vast majority of one's energy and time.


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Re: This Society Rules [Re: Krishna]
    #10083177 -

The hunter gatherers or nomadic tribes of today have been pushed to the farthest , harshest regions , where we cannot cultivate anything, even with our vast technology and knowledge. 

They would not be so hard pressed on survival if they lived in somewhere more life-supporting.

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Re: This Society Rules [Re: TypicalTripper]
    #10083234 -

TypicalTripper said:
The hunter gatherers or nomadic tribes of today have been pushed to the farthest , harshest regions , where we cannot cultivate anything, even with our vast technology and knowledge. 

They would not be so hard pressed on survival if they lived in somewhere more life-supporting.


What, Ethiopia and Somalia not good enough for you?


--------------------

Fight for a large loving government that can take care of its people, kill our criminals, and preform the huge industrial tasks our corporate overlords refuse(wanna greenwash me some more Exon?)

Not this weak travesty that let millions starve and sucks corporate cock while failing at every turn.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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