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World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS) Registered: 04/27/01 Posts: 7,415 Loc: Erra - 20 Tauri Last seen: 2 days, 17 hours |
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Auto-SummaryMilitary experts and toxicologists suggest that Russian commandos may have used a gas containing Valium or a hallucinogenic drug like BZ to incapacitate Chechen rebels during a Moscow theater raid. The gas was reportedly dispersed through the ventilation system, causing some hostages to feel sleepy and confused, but no one reported seeing a vapor cloud or experiencing irritation typically associated with tear gas or pepper spray. The Russian military has developed non-lethal incapacitating agents, but the specific gas used in this incident appears to be unique compared to the U.S. arsenal. Experts note that aerosolized Valium or BZ gas could have been used to incapacitate and disorient the rebels, making it difficult for them to resist during the assault. Source. In reply to: Related news, Here and here. You may ask what is this BZ gas, well it looks like it is an hallucinogenic, i've tried to find some chemical info but i only got this reference to 3C-BZ, i don't know if they are similar in effects, by relating the article with 3C-BZ there might be some resemblance, well, both at least belong to the benzynes compund and both seem to be hallucinogenic. In reply to: Article from here. MAIA -------------------- Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy. Voltaire
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Bite me, it's fun! Registered: 06/28/02 Posts: 6,739 Loc: Aurora, Colorado Last seen: 7 minutes, 30 seconds |
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3C-BZ is not related at all to BZ, despite the similar names. 3C-BZ is a hallucinogenic amphetamine, and BZ is an anticholinergic similar to the tropanes (see Datura on Erowid).
The anticholinergics produce true hallucinations, unlike the psychedelics. Those under the influence see things which they often know cannot be real, but they see them nonetheless. For anybody considering taking them deliberately, they produce no euphoria and nobody who has taken them claims they were enjoyable. BZ is also covered under various laws governing materials for chemical warfare, and so is the precursor 3-quinuclidinol. Given the way the US government is going to investigate anything which even might have anything to do with possible terrorism, you don't want anything to do with this stuff. You might find yourself declared some sort of terrorist, and these days they have no rights at all. No right to an attorney, bail, hearings, trials, or any of those things. -------------------- Happy mushrooming!
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sleuth Registered: 09/24/02 Posts: 282 Loc: Mirror in the Sk Last seen: 11 years, 10 months |
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Subsequent articles have indicated the substance used was probably fentanyl or a similar synthetic opioid. The following AP article:
Oct. 29, 2002 | WASHINGTON (AP) -- The gas Russian authorities used at the end of a Moscow hostage crisis, which killed 116 of the captives, was the anesthesia fentanyl or another drug related to it, U.S. officials said Tuesday. In Moscow, U.S. Ambassador Alexander Vershbow offered the first official American criticism of the Russians' continued refusal to identify the substance used. ``It's clear that perhaps with a little more information, at least a few more of the hostages may have survived,'' Vershbow said. Russian authorities pumped the gas into a theater where separatist rebels were holding more than 800 people hostage Saturday. The gas killed 116 hostages; 50 hostage-takers also died, many from gunshot wounds. Relatives of Oklahoman Sandy Booker, 49, said Russian authorities notified them Tuesday that Booker was among the dead. Based on reports from doctors who visited some of the American hostages, U.S. officials believe the gas was an opiate _ a drug related to morphine and heroin, Vershbow said. Other U.S. officials identified the drug as fentanyl, commonly used in anesthesia and to relieve severe pain. Fentanyl is a fast-acting narcotic that in large doses can shut down breathing and cause death from lack of oxygen. A hundred times more potent than morphine, fentanyl also has been abused for the highs it produces. The effects of opiates like fentanyl can be reversed with the drug naloxone, known by the brand name Narcan. U.S. officials say some of the hostages responded to doses of Narcan, which bolstered the belief that the Russians used an opiate to knock out the hostage-takers and their captives. Fentanyl was among drugs that Pennsylvania State University researchers suggested two years ago the U.S. military explore as weapons to subdue angry mobs. The Pentagon has put such research on hold, however, because of worries that it would violate the international ban on chemical weapons. Whether Russia's use of the gas in the hostage situation would violate the treaty is unclear, since the pact allows for the use of chemical agents for law enforcement purposes. At the White House, spokesman Ari Fleischer avoided criticizing the Russian government's response to the hostage crisis. ``The president feels very strongly that responsibility for this rests with the terrorists who took these people hostage and put them in harm's way in the first place,'' Fleischer said. Source I find it very disturbing that the current administration endorses Russia's methods (particularly shooting the hostage-takers to death while they were already incapacitated!), but not all that surprising--in part because of political necessity (forgiving their dirty work so that they will be more inclined to back our government's in Iraq)--and because these techniques have been actively considered (and possibly used) by the Pentagon. See A Budhha's Memesfrom 10/29 for more info, including links to Incapacitating Agents taken down from an Army site, the Pentagon's use of Psychopharmacological Warfare, including the development and use of chemical agents in the War on Terror, and the use of "calmative agents" in crowd control. Scary stuff.
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Anonymous |
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pacifica is saying the same things... no doubt the military already has these weapon systems already... i can only hope these systems are never used on anyone... stay safe and pay close attention...
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HunterThomson Registered: 10/25/02 Posts: 22 Loc: I live in the st Last seen: 22 years, 6 months |
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I have read about this stuff in the past and belve me it is all you sed it was and a WHOLE FUCKING LOT MORE ! ! ! After the CIA MK-ULTRA project descuverd LSD25 they gave it to the U.S. milutary to test on GI's and then the U.S. people in 1969! After the U.S. milutary tested it on the U.S. people and trops in Vetnam they desided that they liked what it did but that it didn't last longenugh and that it wasn't strong enugh so they got pople out of jall that had ben arested for syntheses of LSD 25 and had then creat BZ !! and boy o boy this stugh will strate up fry your fucking bran out! The peek lasts 2 to 3 days and visual desterbenses for weeks to months!
(keep in mind that these were the efects from the dose the milutary gave them whitch proboly 5 times the dose you need to.) This stuff is no trip this stuff is well you should watch the move Jacubs Lader ther is a lot of truth to that move.
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(keep in mind that these were the efects from the dose the milutary gave them whitch proboly 5 times the dose you need to.) This stuff is no trip this stuff is well you should watch the move Jacubs Lader ther is a lot of truth to that move.
