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gradually imposed fast
    #9246739 -

Since it is winter, and I no longer have the urge to go out running, it seems to be a natural time for me to gradually work my way into a fast:

My chief goal will be to examine in my habits, what I consider to be arbitrary and worthwhile. In the past, I have fasted but I disappointed myself, because I did not conceive of my fast as a gradual dynamic. I sort of just vascillated between absolutes of freedom and restriction. My goal is to blur this line, (which it was before) but this time I am going to have a plan, rather than winging it.

So I was wondering if any of you had any tips on how to make this as gradual a process as possible. My plan is to limit the different parts and volume of my diet, but I do not understand my diet well. Generally, I want to move from "heavy" to "light", but I don't exactly know how to order my foods this way:

For instance, first I might cut oils, and foods with fat in them. I am already vegetarian, so this means probably first cutting my chief sources of protein, like nuts and soy and cheese. Then I will probably cut out milk and dairy all together, probably at the same time that I cut starches like cereals, oats, and rice.  Eventually I would like to work my way to just fruits and vegetables, and juices. Finally just diluted juices.

I know some of you guys are experienced with this, and understand diet in general, so how can I best make my way from "heavy to light"?

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: daytripper23]
    #9247390 -

hard to advise on fasting without knowing your goals...

anyway...

for free scientific information about fasting available on the web go here:

http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/02principles.html

then click here:

I agree to respect the library and the copyrights within it: Take me to the library.

then here:
Alternative Medical Therapies
 

then here:  ( and you can download a pdf file of a great out of print book )

DeVries, Arnold. Therapeutic Fasting. Los Angeles: Chandler, 1963.
A complete, sensitive and intelligent survey of fasting and of fasting literature. Arnold DeVries was an American researcher, writer and hygienist, who already in the 1950's changed from a fruitarian (Fountain of Youth, 1946) to a paleolithic understanding of what constitutes optimum human nutrition (Primitive Man and His Food, 1952, Elixir of Life, 1952). Therapeutic Fasting, 1963) has been one of his most popular and widely used titles. Downloads as a single PDF of about 275 kb. Thanks are owed to Dr. Bass of the International Natural Hygiene Society for providing this excellent book. OUT OF PRINT.

then scroll down and you will find a "gold mine"
the books of
Shelton, Herbert among many others

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: daytripper23]
    #9247764 -

Sounds like you have a good idea of what to do.  I prepare for a fast by first starting to only eat raw fruits for a day or two, then fruit juices for a day or two, then water from then out.  Sometimes I just switch directly to water.  I just listen to my body.  I've been fasting recently a lot too; good luck!  :heart:

That soil and health link is golden.  Here's a more direct link to the info you need:

http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/020127shelton.III/020127.toc.htm

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: MOTH]
    #9249571 -

Thanks fellas. Interesting stuff there, there is clearly a lot to read on the subject in general, but I still have one specific question.

At the trough of my fast, I hope to be taking a spirulina protein supplement, along with diluted lemon juice and teas (no sugar).

I read in the previous threads that some people used spirulina during fasting, but I am worried that it is so nutritious it will defeat the purpose. While its hard to describe my purposes, spirulina seems like a very important factor whatever they are. I wish I could be more specific, but all I can really sensibly say is that for me it is an ascetic practice.

Can anybody fill me in on the general nature of using spirulina in fasting?

Edited by daytripper23 (11/15/08 03:09 PM)

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: daytripper23]
    #9250019 -

strictly speaking only consuming 100% water only, is fasting
juice fasting is really a juice diet
this is not just "nit picking"

(Much fasting for religious purposes is not healthy because there is no knowledge of the physiology, and therefore such fasts are usually entered and exited improperly, human nature being what it is)

Philosophically speaking the health benefit of fasting comes from what is NOT being done.

When we want to paint a room, or remodel a house, we remove the furniture. In the case of repainting after the furniture is removed we may wash and or sand the walls. This temporarily creates a huge mess.

Fasting is the opposite of consuming so called "super foods". (In any case the opinions folks have about spirulina are mixed--some say it has vitamin B analogues that actually interfere with vitamin B absorption.)

Scientifically speaking some of the benefit of fasting comes from the breaking down of tissue, which results in stored toxins being removed. The act of fasting, forces the body to consume this tissue; so to feed one self super foods while fasting would actually be counterproductive and potentially harmful. Please read some of the wonderful material by Shelton and De Veries and it will become clear.

Short fasts of 10 days or less, or fresh vegetable and fruit juice diet are generally quite safe, if in good health--if one has done the required reading. Ten days is what Paul Bragg used to recommend.
In any case all authorities agree the lasting benefits are only possible if optimal diet is followed afterwards.

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: laughingdog]
    #9251334 -

Yes, I am interested in the idea of negation in general, this is the basis of my approach.

What is a limitation (-) and what is my behavior in these terms; absolute or partially arbitrary?

This is something I suspected about using spirulina. I mostly wanted to supplement because I am in pretty decent shape, and winter is sapping my motivation to keep up with it. The fast seems like a natural time to make a shift to keep the spirit of this; though I can deal with losing some weight. The thing is I am already a skinny guy, heh.

Thanks for the advice

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: daytripper23]
    #9251854 -

Don't fast if you're skinny.


--------------------
Remember to cut your nails regularly.


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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: PyroBurns]
    #9251914 -

Why's that?




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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: daytripper23]
    #9251922 -

MOTH's progression " prepare for a fast by first starting to only eat raw fruits for a day or two, then fruit juices for a day or two, then water from then out. " is very sensible if one has the time.

Great weight loss is not advisable. Less than 3 days is not worth the effort for health purposes in my opinion. 5 days of actual water fasting is enough to get to know the experience and can produce real health benefits.
When one considers there are several days of light diet before and after the fast, it all adds up to over a week of cleansing.

I will be starting a short fast myself soon.

In longer fasts the limiting factor frequently and surprisingly seems to be mineral reserves. This is evident when weightloss stops or slows to an imperceivable rate, although fat reserves are still in evidence.

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: laughingdog]
    #9251985 -

Yea, I do have the time, and more really. Strangely enough, its my thanksgiving fast.

I am only going to school this next week, and then I have a week and a half off.

Ive been working my way down, today has been all Fruits and veges besides my usual bowl of super cereal in the morning. Ill probably eat the cereal a few more days, and then ween the rest, like moth mentions.

Im not really worried about keeling over. Despite my skinniness I am in pretty decent shape.

I am sort of worried about the cold, I walk a mile to class three days next week, and it gets pretty chilly on the way back at night. Ill have to pack some extra layers.

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: daytripper23]
    #9252190 -

"I am sort of worried about the cold, I walk a mile to class three days next week, and it gets pretty chilly on the way back at night. Ill have to pack some extra layers."

Yup extra layers--(I use duafold) also as long as you are still eating, but lighter, lots of bananas are the key to getting enough calories.

http://www.ask.com/web?qsrc=2417&o=0&l=dir&q=duafold+long+underware

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: daytripper23]
    #9253569 -

You CAN fast safely if you are skinny.  Dr. Shelton has overseen thousands and thousands of fasts and he said that the skinny folks actually lose weight more slowly then fat people on a water fast, handle fasting better overall then fat people, and can actually heal absorption issues in their stomachs through fasting that enables then to even gain more weight after a fast then they had before they started.  All this info is provided in that link above - take a gander. 

Also, in my opinion, the first three days is just the starting point.  It is truly up to you and what you feel your body needs but - the longer you fast the more of a benefit it will be and it gets easier over time.  It is recommended you have a doctor supervise your fast after the first 3 days, but if you feel like continuing to fast after three days, you really should consider to keep going.

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: laughingdog]
    #9253573 -

laughingdog said:
"I am sort of worried about the cold, I walk a mile to class three days next week, and it gets pretty chilly on the way back at night. Ill have to pack some extra layers."

Yup extra layers--(I use duafold) also as long as you are still eating, but lighter, lots of bananas are the key to getting enough calories.

http://www.ask.com/web?qsrc=2417&o=0&l=dir&q=duafold+long+underware


I got a little $15 heater from Lowes - I love that thing.  I get very freezing when I am fasting and that heater is like my best friend now.

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: daytripper23]
    #9256384 -

i wouldn't fast in winter unless you live someplace warm. your more likely to feel frazzled  and weak. IMO spring is the best time to fast. you need lots of warm, sweet foods in the winter. but that's just me...

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
    #9256786 -

Summer is much easier--no doubt---depends upon health issues--necessity

in winter, in the north, electric blankets, mattress pads, etc. can be used in a pinch...

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: laughingdog]
    #9256857 -

I just don't want you to do it because you mentioned weight reasons. I think fasting for dropping fat is the worst thing you can do, and may develop into a problem.

You should have really serious reasons to fast, otherwise you might just make things worse.


--------------------
Remember to cut your nails regularly.


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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
    #9256933 -

Well, here in upstate NY, people tend to go into hibernation during the winter. November isn't so bad, but I tend to plainly give up the prospect of outdoor activity come December and January. I'm taking a heavy classload this semestor, so I spend a great deal of time lounging with my books. These circumstances are actually what brought me the idea. Is there a great difference between fasting and hibernation? In terms of utility they are not so different.

I am very interested in how my rationalizations here are so different than what our culture expects, being thanksgiving and all. Its funny, about 5 years ago I began experiencing this feast in its fullest, as a stoner with the munchies. Then this was turned upside down by me becoming a vegetarian, and it became an absurdity to me. And now, as I have been describing, it seems natural to entirely negate this. I feel like a rebel without a cause, because it just seems to make sense in terms of my basic circumstances. For once culture seems completely extraneous to me, an abstraction that nonetheless still aligns with my past thirst for rebellion.
I wish I could express this more clearly, maybe I will find the words in the process.

Edited by daytripper23 (11/17/08 05:02 PM)

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: daytripper23]
    #9256995 -

perhaps you misunderstood, I will be dissapointed to lose weight as I have spent my entire life trying to put it on. I am the last person to worry about having an eating disorder. Is this what you thought?

It is a philosophical experiment for me.

Thanks for your concern though.

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: daytripper23]
    #9257529 -

If it is for a spiritual purpose then keep on truckin. just simply wanting to do that for those reasons means you are probably healthy enough for it. I would reccomend the master cleanse though. water fasts can be dangerous over long periods. check this out

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Re: gradually imposed fast [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
    #9264020 -

There is a reason why American Indians on a vision quest, and Jesus, and Pythagorus and company all did water only fasts. Some ascetics even go without water for a few days, but this is potentially very dangerous.

-------------------
IMO
The so called "Master Cleanse" is essentially a sugar diet with forced purges using the poison salt to Force diarhhea.
The sweetener is then combined with a strong acid, and a plantl irritant: hot red pepper, which Force the body to secrete mucus. Much fuss is made about how maple sugar is not sugar. I'm sure it does have some minerals, but it sure is sweet !  And it is certainly not a balanced "food".

12 drinks  X 2 Tablespoons/ glass = about 1 cup of Syrup a day.

Quotes below from the posted link about the "master cleanse"

===================================

"HOW TO MAKE IT?

2 Tablespoons lemon or lime juice (approx. ½ lemon)

2 Tablespoons genuine maple syrup (Not maple flavored sugar syrup)

1/10 Teaspoon cayenne pepper (red pepper) or to taste

Water, medium hot

Combine the juice, maple syrup, and cayenne pepper in a 10 oz glass and fill with medium hot water. (Cold water may be used if preferred.)

Use fresh (organic) lemons or limes only, never canned lemon or lime juice nor frozen lemonade or frozen juice."

=========================
"HOW MUCH DOES ONE DRINK?

Take from six to twelve glasses of the lemonade daily during the waking period."

==========================

"DIRECTIONS: Prepare a full quart of luke-warm water and add two level (rounded for the Canadian quart) teaspoons of sea salt. Do not use ordinary iodized salt as it will not work properly. Drink the entire quart of salt and water first thing in the morning. This must be taken on an empty stomach. The salt and water will not separate but will stay intact and quickly and thoroughly wash the entire tract in about one hour. Several eliminations will likely occur. The salt water has the same specific gravity as the blood, hence the kidneys cannot pick up the water and the blood cannot pick up the salt. This may be taken as often as needed for proper washing of the entire digestive system."

============================

IMO

In no way, shape, or form is the "master cleanse" equivelant to a fast. To force regular massive bowel evacuations with a poison which kills all intestinal flora, and enervates the body at precisely the moment when it is attempting to marshall all it's energies for healing, is unwise. There are many so called cleanses, all with their supporters.  Many cleanses make use of Psyllium seed and various herbs. Others employ colonics. Basiclly they all seem to gather adherents among those who are either incabable of trusting nature, impatient and thus with a need  to see and feel body activity in order to believe something miraculous is happening, and  fearfull of the stark reality of true fasting. Another motive for DOING cleanses is the need to DO something. However we are the fools who created our oun innner toxicity, with all our busy DOING. When we fast, we stop DOING, and hand over the reins to Mother Nature.

----------------

for free scientific information about fasting available on the web go here:

http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/02principles.html

then click here:

I agree to respect the library and the copyrights within it: Take me to the library.

then here:
Alternative Medical Therapies


then here:  ( and you can download a pdf file of a great out of print book )

DeVries, Arnold. Therapeutic Fasting. Los Angeles: Chandler, 1963.
A complete, sensitive and intelligent survey of fasting and of fasting literature. Arnold DeVries was an American researcher, writer and hygienist, who already in the 1950's changed from a fruitarian (Fountain of Youth, 1946) to a paleolithic understanding of what constitutes optimum human nutrition (Primitive Man and His Food, 1952, Elixir of Life, 1952). Therapeutic Fasting, 1963) has been one of his most popular and widely used titles. Downloads as a single PDF of about 275 kb. Thanks are owed to Dr. Bass of the International Natural Hygiene Society for providing this excellent book. OUT OF PRINT.

then scroll down and you will find a "gold mine"
the books of
Shelton, Herbert among many others

------------

http://soilandhealth.org/

Catalog of The Alternative Medical Therapies Library

http://soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyglibcat/0201hyglibcat.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

also available from Amazon

Fasting and Eating for Health: A Medical Doctor's Program for Conquering Disease (Paperback)
by Joel Fuhrman (Author), Neal D. Barnard (Foreword

---------------------------

The Raw Secrets: the Raw Food Diet in the Real World, 2nd Edition (Hardcover)
by Frederic Patenaude (Author), FredericPatenaude.com (Editor)

• Hardcover: 204 pages
• Publisher: FredericPatenaude.com; 2nd edition (July 1, 2006)
• Language: English
• ISBN-10: 097309303X
• ISBN-13: 978-0973093032
The best overall quick introduction to really improving health rapidly through scientific diet. Contains some information found nowhere else. The only book in english with information on the "half fast", and when and how to do it.

http://www.amazon.com/Raw-Secrets-Food-Diet-World/dp/097309303X/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215267219&sr=1-1

--------------------------------------------------------------------

problems with colonics

http://www.tanglewoodwellnesscenter.com/colon-hydrotherapy.php

-------------------

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