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formal education versus studying independently
    #8790332 -

this is one of the biggest issues in my life right now

i hated college because of the rigorous confinement to agendas, way too narrow to hold my interest and not getting at the important things about what is happening in this world.

so i try to read about a greater breadth of subjects (now that I have some time) which capture my interest.

however, i find that amazon bestsellers and "popular" science books really don't teach much. what good is someone else's insight? I need the raw data to really understand.

so I am becoming drawn to reading textbooks instead, but I'm starting to think why am I not in school. well, maybe none of the scholastic programs capture the big picture for me. maybe my interests are too quickly subject to revision to follow another one through. plus, why pay money (and freedom) for what I can mostly learn for free.

but then there is the time issue, it is a bit crazy to work 9-5 while trying to pursue completely different intellectual interests. however i also don't want to live all waking hours with my head in the academic clouds. i'm not a pure "intellectual". but then if i don't have a degree behind me i have no authenticity or power to use what I learn.

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: Epigallo]
    #8790410 -

Studying independently will forever make it a hobby and not a profession.  It seems like that is what you want, so whats the problem aye?

You mention pop-science books... Unless you are the combination of Gauss, Newton, Einstein, Feynman and a whole host of other genius you will not be able to draw conclusion from data alone.  Whats wrong with reading someone else's insight?  Isnt that the best way to stretch and grow?  You dont want to clam up into your own opinions and thoughts.

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: DieCommie]
    #8790519 -

well, i didn't literally mean drawing conclusions from raw experimental data. i mean, if you can understand something from basic principles that is completely different than hearing what someone else has to say about it. euclidean geometry was one of my favorite courses because all of the details are so immediately connected to the basic postulates of the field. this learning experience is hardly comparable to reading a pop science book on the many uses of geometry. you don't need to be a genius to learn basic principles; just some time.

maybe I am just dwelling on this too much. (or not)

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: Epigallo]
    #8790682 -

The thing I like about formal education is that I am often able to learn from those who have experience in their fields.

This means I am able to learn not just theory, but real-life application of the things I am learning. Not to mention is opens many doors to experiential opportunities such as internships, research opportunities, and employment.

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: Redstorm]
    #8790897 -

Why not do both? I do allot of self study, but I still go to school. Reading from a book isnt the same as hearing someones personal experience, and it cant equal the direct understanding that you gain in a lab.


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: blewmeanie]
    #8790909 -

I agree. Both is the best balance.

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: Redstorm]
    #8790921 -

Well, hes got a 9-5 which pretty much shuts out all the fun programs in formal education. 

Its a real choice some people have to make, between full time jobs and education.  The best answer isnt education for everybody.

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: Epigallo]
    #8790943 -

It just means you may not be able to attend full time. I manage to work in classes after 6 Tuesdays and Thursdays, weekend classes when their available, and online classes. Depending on your major, it can be relatively easy(anything business related) or a stressful balancing act (I'm a physics major, and its a huge pain in the ass).....I'm going to be in school forever.

Edit: Self study can also be a way of skipping allot of classes. http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/clep/about.html


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

Edited by blewmeanie (08/18/08 01:03 PM)

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: blewmeanie]
    #8790960 -

Wait, you can take physics classes online?  That cant be right.  :tongue2:

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: DieCommie]
    #8791004 -

If only I could(thats why its a pain in the ass)........It is a good way to knock out a few electives though. Im doing American History online this semester.


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: blewmeanie]
    #8791068 -

Do you know if you can do CLEPs for grad school?

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: Epigallo]
    #8791099 -

No, its mostly introductory classes. Your school should have a list of classes that are "clepable".;)

http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/clep/exams.html


--------------------
The Prophecy!

Learn To Code

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: Epigallo]
    #8791104 -

If you are referring to college level certification you cannot do that for graduate level science studies.

One of the fundamental differences of graduate level science is that when you solve problems and do the science, its never been done before, so the answers aren't known.


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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: badchad]
    #8792581 -

i am actually just too selfish and carry the attitude that i should be able to do what i want whenever i want. i think that's the real issue.

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: Epigallo]
    #8792651 -

I'm saddened by the fact that it's nigh impossible to be a Renaissance Man anymore.  Fields have gotten too specialized, and trying to take a general overview of knowledge will leave you with only a shallow proficiency at any specific field and a lack of understanding into the deep pattern.

I can only shudder when I think about undergraduates and graduates 500 years from now.  So much more knowledge to cram into their heads.


--------------------
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: Epigallo]
    #8793194 -

Saint Paul was a tent-maker, Jacob Boehme was a cobbler, Baruch (Benedict) Spinoza was a lens-maker, Jesus was a carpenter, Buddha was a beggar (when you get down to it), and lots of others whose lives were dedicated to Knowing, led completely different lives from the work by which they survived. I thought that academia would be for me, but the competition in universities to 'publish-or-perish,' the competition of where one was schooled, the back-stabbing over office-space, etc. could be worse than the corporate world, with far tinier monetary rewards and very unlikely academic recognition (if those are what one craves). It all seemed too much trouble for the effort.

Fortunately, I found a niche for the past 22 years, which was threatened recently with dissolution due to cutbacks. I am funded for the 23rd year along with 99 others, and I hope and pray it lasts another 7 years, so that I can retire with the mandatory minimum of 30 years in the Florida Retirement System. Then, 48% of my highest 5 years of earnings for the rest of my life. Not much, maybe 30 something thousand. Hope the stock market turns around for my investments sake.

Formal education trains a person in ways that self-learning cannot. Anyway, I didn't become a Jungian analyst despite my application and interview, I never specialized sufficiently in any of my academic disciplines to teach them full-time in a university, but I did manage to find a 10 month position which I work for 212 days of the year with 2 months off every summer, legal holidays, Christmas and Spring breaks. It is perfect for someone like me who would rather not work at all, but who is not independently wealthy. I have been pursuing my occult interests every summer since I was 19, regardless of the 'phase' I was in: magick, witchcraft, Zen, Yoga, Christianity, Vajrayana, Gnosticism, etc. So, I am a Hermetic philosopher, but I work full-time as a counselor for adolescents and I've acquired certain credentials for part-time private counseling or therapy for extra money as well as to learn the workings of peoples' minds and help them to-boot.

I knew another Shroomerite who attempted college 5 different times. Next thing I knew, he enlisted in the U.S. Army and he has been in Iraq. He began to communicate with me after 3 years of silence when he had broken away from my Lady and me for personal reasons of his own. Now, he sends me a photo of him in his barracks with Alex Grey pictures and a big Kabbalistic Tree of Life on the wall! Personally, I'd rather be in my modest home studying these things than in a war zone 45 minutes from Bagdad.

Read The Hamlet Syndrome: Overthinkers Who Underachieve, and welcome to the club! :wink:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: deCypher]
    #8794083 -

The Cypher said:
I'm saddened by the fact that it's nigh impossible to be a Renaissance Man anymore.  Fields have gotten too specialized, and trying to take a general overview of knowledge will leave you with only a shallow proficiency at any specific field and a lack of understanding into the deep pattern.


You can still aim to be a Renaissance Man at least. I haven't met any other scientists with as good computer skills as myself, or a love of history like I have. But some of my colleagues are also artists or musicians, which I'm no good at. And a lot of them are better scientists than me anyway (until they need to use computer :grin:)

You're still right though. You can't really be a commercial success in many fields like Leonardo da Vinci was. Those times are over.


--------------------
I know... that just the smallest
                                                part of the world belongs to me
You know... I'm not a blind man
                                                    but truth is the hardest thing to see

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: Epigallo]
    #8794099 -

Thanks for making this post.  It is something I think about often as well.  No insight to add however, as while I desire to attend university, I am carless and 40 minutes away from the nearest college and work full-time.  I've actually been to college twice when I was younger and both times I just got tired of it; I don't think I was mature enough to appreciate an education at the time.  Now that I'm 25 and have been in the "real world" for awhile, I am SOO ready to be in a classroom with other students, textbooks, homework and an instructor.  There have been times in the past year where I've wanted college to happen for me really badly and came close numerous times to attaining the resources I need. 

But because of my current life-situation, I've had to accept the fact that maybe a formal education isn't my path, which really pushes me to do as much reading on my own as I can.  So I'm putting college on the back-burner for now.  I will go eventually; I know this.  Just not NOW, so it probably isn't the right time.

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Re: formal education versus studying independently *DELETED* [Re: Epigallo]
    #8794160 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

Edited by Lakefingers (08/19/08 06:08 AM)

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Re: formal education versus studying independently [Re: Lakefingers]
    #8794491 -

Thanks for the great replies everyone.

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