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Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state
    #8753514 -

Right, So I'm new to all this shit. Read the shit out of numerous guides, tips, strain descriptions etc etc, I'm fairly confident in my ability to jury rig/flat out copy something from the guides.

My main concern is the syringe itself. A strange hangup perhaps but as I said in the title. Given the fact that the jackboot is coming over closer to the face of humanity the chance is fairly good someone will see an x-ray outline or just flat out randomly open any package I order. My main concern is what the hell will happen if/when they see a syringe full of clear/purple fluid?

How paranoid do i really need to be given the tiny, table top, setup I'm looking at. 2 cakes sitting on a shelf in coke bottles. The supplier seems far more reliable than places iv ordered for more innocious goods from.

I've read the security faqs half a dozen times but it doesn't seem to really ring true. The only way i can run into real legal ramifications is if they get a search warrant(having ordered spores a month again isnt reason enough is it?) and SEE it fruiting. At which point the method of payment, shipping addresses all this is moot.

So why bother with a prepaid card that requires contact and mailing information before activation. Should I violate even MORE federal laws to lie on the prepaid card? Money Orders, A physical thing they can intercept? why use a remailer? Do the remailers unpack and repackage before re mailing? Even then they are just as likely to see and guess the contents after it leaves the remailer. A remailer may even make the package MORE interesting. PO Boxes? Again I need ID with an address or get into fraud territory. It seems the best option for my purposes from a legal stand point is merely to order the product like anything else. i can always claim i just wanted a hangover cure.

Food for thought, Would love to hear your opinions and experiences. anything I'm not taking into account? Anything I got wrong? After all thats why I'm here.

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: TransientBum]
    #8763031 -

there r places that will send u free prints just send in an envelope
some places u can send cash in mail a money 0rder can have any type of name and addy
u can have things sent general delivery at the post office


--------------------
"the way of the warrior is the resolute acceptance of death"

Miyamoto Musashi

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: TransientBum]
    #8763050 -

just send ralf an envelope with an order form and a 20 dollar bill. you will get your spores. make sure u ask him to ship discreetly.

just look on the sponsor page. their all good.


--------------------

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: Dose Me Homie]
    #8764917 -

Unless you have a weird local law, a syringe in itself is not illegal. X-Raying a syringe is not a problem since it doen't qualify as probable cause. Unless they have something that indicates that there was something illegal in the syringe, they can't even open the package.

Like the person above said, just use cash. A money order will work too. Ralphster's and The Hawk's Eye prefer these methods instead of credit cards. They also use very discreet shipping (boring pieces of mail that look like a million other boring items.

If somehow LEO's get wise to your spore delivery (super unlikely) they would still need something that indicated you intended to germinate the spores to get a search warrant. Don't get supplies delivered and you're fine.


--------------------
Check out my first ever TEK!
Shroom capsules with the Cap-M-Quik (pics)

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: PowerOfTheCoir]
    #8770259 -

Unless you're in Georgia, California or Idaho its NOT ILLEGAL.

Even if they somehow got a reason to open your package, examine the spores in a lab and determine they are cubensis spores (haha), they're NOT ILLEGAL.  That is pretty much guaranteed to never happen..but again even if it does..its..NOT ILLEGAL.

And then even if a vendor goes down for doing something else thats actually illegal and they get all the records of transactions (that no vendor keeps) they can never get a warrant to search your home for buying something that is NOT ILLEGAL.

I dont know how else to reassure you that is cool. .because you not doing anything illegal by simply ordering spores.  That is simply not a justification to have your house raided. Not even close.

Now lets talk about what is actually dangerous.. .talking about growing.  Don't tell anyone.  Don't tell the girlfriend that's going to hate you in 6 months.  Don't tell your stoner friends that cant shut the fuck up..don't even tell your fucking pets, cats are some gossiping sons of bitches.  And for the love of Buddha don't sell the shit.  People talk and they love to tell people they know a guy they can score shrooms from.  THAT is what leads bacon to your door.  Especially when some dumb fuck you sold to gets busted and rolls on you..and they WILL roll on you.

Hope I was of assistance.


--------------------
Everything I say on this website and forum is completely false and fantasy role play.  In reality I do not engage in any illegal activities regardless of what my posts say.

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: the_0wl]
    #8770522 -

We get your point, I think, but you're overstating. it.

Ordering a pound of red phosphorus to your house isn't illegal under federal law, to the best of my knowledge, see what that gets you when they find it.


Find me where the constitution says no warrant shall issue nor searches but upon illegal items being found.


They need probable cause, not an illegal item.

And spores aren't illegal in California, they are the same legality as pretty much any other state in the United States I'd suspect.

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: johnm214]
    #8770594 -

johnm214 said:
We get your point, I think, but you're overstating. it.

Ordering a pound of red phosphorus to your house isn't illegal under federal law, to the best of my knowledge, see what that gets you when they find it.


Find me where the constitution says no warrant shall issue nor searches but upon illegal items being found.


They need probable cause, not an illegal item.

And spores aren't illegal in California, they are the same legality as pretty much any other state in the United States I'd suspect.


There is a reason vendors will not ship to those 3 states mentioned.  Those states specifically deem it illegal.  Its perfectly legal in other states though.  Laws vary greatly from state to state.  Just read up on the laws of your state regarding controlled substances and search and seizure.  I know the media is good at scaring people and painting a picture of us being constantly monitored and perpetually at gun point by the big bad Bush.  But realistically nothing has really changed regarding this stuff in a long long time.  We're not China..yet..

But even if the shit did hit the fan and spores suddenly became illegal all the vendors would disappear and you STILL wouldn't be in trouble having committed the act BEFORE it was illegal.  They can prove you bought spores a thousand times before it became unlawful and there is nothing they can do.


--------------------
Everything I say on this website and forum is completely false and fantasy role play.  In reality I do not engage in any illegal activities regardless of what my posts say.

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: the_0wl]
    #8770660 -

Quote me the law with citation that makes spores illegal in california.

As I said, they are not per se illegal and are quire similar to the rest of the states in their legality.  I'm not interested in your conjecture, you say its illegal, find the law and post it here.


What does what I said have to do with surveilance or anything?

All I'm saying is that 1) in criminal law, almost nothing is per se legal, almost anything can be illegal- and the exceptions I can think of presently aren't relevant to our discussion;  2) an item not per se illegal can still constitute probable cause


There is no "these are legal" statutes for the items we're talking about and for the uses we're discussing (ordering to collect lets say).


For some reason you seem to think having items that are legal (which really means they are not per se illegal) is some bar to them being used to support a warrant or indictment.  This is wrong as I stated as teh standard is probable cause, not 'the item is per se illegal'.  I think its dangerous to perpetuate myths such as these, as folks may rely upon them to their detriment.


Rolling papers and grow lights are about the same legality as spores in many states.  All three are not per se illegal but they can be illegal and they can be evidence of crimes other than the possesion of the item itself.

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: johnm214]
    #8770752 -

Here you go.

Good ole Erowid spells it out with direct quotes and links to the documents.  Actually as far as Cali goes:

  1. The law appears to state that it is only illegal to import spores into the state if there is intent to cultivate them into mushrooms.
  2. It is not specifically illegal to possess spores, it is only illegal to "transport, import into the state, sell, furnish, or give away" spores or mycelium. Technically, this means that possession of spores obtained from mushrooms inside the state, which are not bought or sold, are not illegal.
  3. Only viable spores appear to be illegal as the law specifically states that it is "spores or mycelium capable of producing mushrooms" which are illegal.


--------------------
Everything I say on this website and forum is completely false and fantasy role play.  In reality I do not engage in any illegal activities regardless of what my posts say.

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: the_0wl]
    #8770900 -

Quote:
HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE
SECTION 11390-11392



11390.  Except as otherwise authorized by law, every person who,
with intent to produce a controlled substance specified in paragraph
(18) or (19) of subdivision (d) of Section 11054, cultivates any
spores or mycelium capable of producing mushrooms or other material
which contains such a controlled substance shall be punished by
imprisonment in the county jail for a period of not more than one
year or in the state prison.



11391.  Except as otherwise authorized by law, every person who
transports, imports into this state, sells, furnishes, gives away, or
offers to transport, import into this state, sell, furnish, or give
away  any spores or mycelium capable of producing mushrooms or other
material which contain a controlled substance specified in paragraph
(18) or (19) of subdivision (d) of Section 11054 for the purpose of
facilitating a violation of Section 11390 shall be punished by
imprisonment in the county jail for a period of not more than one
year or in the state prison.



11392.  Spores or mycelium capable of producing mushrooms or other
material which contains psilocyn or psyoclyin may be lawfuly obtained
and used for bona fide research, instruction, or analysis, if not in
violation of federal law, and if the research, instruction, or
analysis is approved by the Research Advisory Panel established
pursuant to Sections 11480 and 11481.

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=hsc&group=11001-12000&file=11390-11392


It appears according to my interpretation of California H&S code, that spores of active species are only illegal in California if there is intent to cultivate:shrug:

Since the California codes state "contains psilocyn or psyoclyin" maybe psilocybin mushrooms are legal? And what the hell is "psilocyn or psyoclyin"


--------------------
Alcoholics Anonymous

Narcotics Anonymous

Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.

God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.

Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: Chemy]
    #8771183 -

But it does state it is illegal to ship them into the state, this is why our reputable vendors will not ship to Cali.  But mainly what we're worried about here is the other 47 states where this is NOT ILLEGAL.  This is not by a long shot what you should be worrying about with this hobby.  There are other actions that are far more likely to lead a LEO to your door.  I hate to quote myself but:

Quote:
Now lets talk about what is actually dangerous.. .talking about growing.  Don't tell anyone.  Don't tell the girlfriend that's going to hate you in 6 months.  Don't tell your stoner friends that cant shut the fuck up..don't even tell your fucking pets, cats are some gossiping sons of bitches.  And for the love of Buddha don't sell the shit.  People talk and they love to tell people they know a guy they can score shrooms from.  THAT is what leads bacon to your door.  Especially when some dumb fuck you sold to gets busted and rolls on you..and they WILL roll on you.


Also if you watch about 2 hours of the show COPS you'll see what not to do..dont get loud and violent where you do this.  Domestic disturbances are probably the #1 reason cops just stroll in your house..then the plain sight rule comes in.  The bong on the coffee table screws you.  It takes some serious fuck ups on your part for cops to get a warrant to raid your house.  And buying something entirely legal is not one of them..


--------------------
Everything I say on this website and forum is completely false and fantasy role play.  In reality I do not engage in any illegal activities regardless of what my posts say.

Edited by the_0wl (08/13/08 10:49 PM)

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: the_0wl]
    #8771592 -

the_0wl said:
But it does state it is illegal to ship them into the state, this is why our reputable vendors will not ship to Cali.



Read Heath and Safety Code 11391 again, it states:
Quote:
import into this state........ any spores...... for the purpose of
facilitating a violation of Section 11390


Spores are only illegal to import "for the purpose of cultivating, or manufacturing a controlled substance"




Quote:
the_0wl said: It takes some serious fuck ups on your part for cops to get a warrant to raid your house.  And buying something entirely legal is not one of them.
And buying something entirely legal is not one of them.. 


That is not true. I can think of at least a thousand chemical combinations that are completely legal to purchase, but would get your door kicked in if you ordered them, while I agree with you that ordering spores will result in nothing but there is no reason to misinform.




--------------------
Alcoholics Anonymous

Narcotics Anonymous

Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.

God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.

Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!

Edited by Chemy (08/14/08 12:51 AM)

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: the_0wl]
    #8771658 -

Quote:
officers noticed large bags of birdseed, vermiculite and jars with spores sitting in plain view.

Officers found through their research that some people use birdseed and vermiculite to create a mixture that turns spores, which can be legally bought in stores, into mushrooms containing the hallucinogenic ingredient psilocybin.

response team discovered a large hallucinogenic mushroom growing operation after serving a search warrant
http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=119973498006606200


Here's one example of legal items being used to obtain a search warrant.


--------------------
Alcoholics Anonymous

Narcotics Anonymous

Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.

God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.

Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: the_0wl]
    #8771982 -

Spores couldn't be used by themselves as probable cause, but they can be used in conjunction with other things to create a "totality of circumstances" which will satisfy probable cause. We obviously know that ordering spores, verm, mason jars, a pressure cooker, ect in such a way that it is tied to the spores is a bad idea. However, you can get hit from unexpected angles too. An anonymous tip, since the informant's reliability is unknowable, is not sufficient by itself to be probable cause. In federal courts and most states however, an anonymous tip can be considered as part of the "totality of circumstances," and a judge may feel that a tip about a grow combined with a spore delivery qualifies as PC, even though the two individual pieces were not independently useful.


--------------------
Check out my first ever TEK!
Shroom capsules with the Cap-M-Quik (pics)

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: Chemy]
    #8775196 -

Chemy said:
the_0wl said:
But it does state it is illegal to ship them into the state, this is why our reputable vendors will not ship to Cali.



Read Heath and Safety Code 11391 again, it states:
Quote:
import into this state........ any spores...... for the purpose of
facilitating a violation of Section 11390


Spores are only illegal to import "for the purpose of cultivating, or manufacturing a controlled substance"




Quote:
the_0wl said: It takes some serious fuck ups on your part for cops to get a warrant to raid your house.  And buying something entirely legal is not one of them.
And buying something entirely legal is not one of them.. 


That is not true. I can think of at least a thousand chemical combinations that are completely legal to purchase, but would get your door kicked in if you ordered them, while I agree with you that ordering spores will result in nothing but there is no reason to misinform.






For those watching at home, I win.

California does not bar spores, and the owl has not shown that they do.

Legal items can get you warrants/indictments and the owl has not shown that they can't.

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: johnm214]
    #8778618 -

Ok, You win teh interwebs.  Are you going to Disney Land?  I wasnt trying to compete with anyone.  Just trying to reassure someone who's overly paranoid about ordering spores.  I've ordered like 20 syringes..1 at a time..over the course of a year..By your logic I should already be in prison..and I'm not..and neither are the other few thousand people on this forum.

Why are you here?  You know dey watch teh interwebs and will find you rite????  You know dey reed our minds all teh time..If you really are that paranoid about this then why the hell are you on this forum and even talking about this hobby? 


--------------------
Everything I say on this website and forum is completely false and fantasy role play.  In reality I do not engage in any illegal activities regardless of what my posts say.

Edited by the_0wl (08/15/08 05:30 PM)

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: the_0wl]
    #8778659 -

the_0wl said:
By your logic I should already be in prison..and I'm not..and neither are the other few thousand people on this forum.



No, logic was never implied in this thread, legality has nothing to do with logic, law and logic are polar opposites.

People drive on a suspended license all the time, they only get caught when they catch a cops attention somehow.
I have to get my license fixed


--------------------
Alcoholics Anonymous

Narcotics Anonymous

Get help, help is free and available 24/7/365.

God bless you all and I hope you receive the help you need to turn away from your lives of sin.

Mushrooms and drugs make you gay, you can reverse this homosexual condition with rehab, get help! Stop being gay!

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: the_0wl]
    #8778781 -

the_0wl said:
Ok, You win teh interwebs.  Are you going to Disney Land?  I wasnt trying to compete with anyone.  Just trying to reassure someone who's overly paranoid about ordering spores.  I've ordered like 20 syringes..1 at a time..over the course of a year..By your logic I should already be in prison..and I'm not..and neither are the other few thousand people on this forum.

Why are you here?  You know dey watch teh interwebs and will find you rite????  You know dey reed our minds all teh time..If you really are that paranoid about this then why the hell are you on this forum and even talking about this hobby? 


I like disney world.

I'm here cuz I enjoy the community, and I like security and safety cuz the law interests me and I like to share my opinions and learn from folks- maybe help a few.


I'm not saying anything about if you will be caught, I'm saying what is legal and not and what the ramifications are.  Spores aren't barred in california, and legal items can support probable cause.


Peace

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: johnm214]
    #8791224 -

Wow, apparently there is some disagreement. However the resulting debate has been informative.

Please don't misconstrue my allusions to 1984 for me blaming Bush for our current state. I had a healthy disdain for American legal and political practices long before he got into office.

My paranoia comes from equal parts ever increasing "security" and just my rotten fucking luck. If anyone was going to be THAT GUY they finally decide to try and go after for for mail ordering spores it would be me.(don't we all think that?) Bottom line, is the potential risk worth being able to play Super Mario Brothers the way it was obviously meant to be played, tripping balls.

See yall in the forums.

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Re: Syringe mailing and our ever increasing Orwellian state [Re: TransientBum]
    #8793880 -

TransientBum said:
Wow, apparently there is some disagreement. However the resulting debate has been informative.

Please don't misconstrue my allusions to 1984 for me blaming Bush for our current state. I had a healthy disdain for American legal and political practices long before he got into office.

My paranoia comes from equal parts ever increasing "security" and just my rotten fucking luck. If anyone was going to be THAT GUY they finally decide to try and go after for for mail ordering spores it would be me.(don't we all think that?) Bottom line, is the potential risk worth being able to play Super Mario Brothers the way it was obviously meant to be played, tripping balls.

See yall in the forums.


Dude.  If you are really that worried.  Do it once, order 1 syringe..And do the PF tek.  You will get shrooms this way unless you're seriously retarded.  Read up on how to make a spore print and then a sryinge from that print.  You'll be self sufficient from that forever.  Its really not hard.  This is even less dangerous then downloading movies on bit torrent.  Thats actually straight up illegal..but how many people get in trouble for it?  This is NOT ILLEGAL! Its like being worried about buying some fucking vicks vapor rub or inhalant because rollers buy it...


--------------------
Everything I say on this website and forum is completely false and fantasy role play.  In reality I do not engage in any illegal activities regardless of what my posts say.

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