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Coates Rotary Valve engines - A brilliant design that needs to be adopted NOW!
    #8262803 -

I've known about this guy for years but I'm not sure if I've ever shared it here. Anyone with an interest in engineering, cars, big oil, or the environment should take a look.

During my drag racing days, it was always my dream to have enough money to get this guy to build a valve train for my car. As with most great inventions, it's genius is in it's simplicity. Yeah, rotary valves are nothing new, but getting them to seal well was the problem, like two-stroke engines. His tech solves that problem.


It isn't going to save us from oil completely, but it will make it easier. Far more efficient, durable, cleaner, and my personal favorite - powerful - we can only hope that big automakers quest for higher MPG and power from smaller engines finally convinces them to license and invest in this technology.

Just a few tidbits to wet your appetite.

1. At 5,500 RPM a 5.0L Ford V8 produced 260 hp and 249 lb.-ft of torque when stock. With the rotary valve heads and the same 5,500 RPM it made 475 hp and 454 lb.-ft of torque, with no other changes. Where the stock heads only flowed 180 cfm, the rotary heads flowed 319 cfm.
2. Since the most limiting factor to most engines in RPM's (among other things) is the valve train, with his design they were able to spin this 5.0L V8 to 14,750 RPM! That's Formula One or 600cc super bike territory!
3. Oil changes intervals of 50,000 miles. Without the need to lubricate the valve train, you won't get blow back and foul your oil so quickly.

So far, the only consumer product they've produced is a motorcycle engine, but they have licensed the tech to some industrial engine builders who were more impressed with the vastly longer life of the design.

http://www.coatesengine.com/index.html


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: Coates Rotary Valve engines - A brilliant design that needs to be adopted NOW! [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #8262827 -

:thumbup:

find a way to mass produce it cheaply and efficiently and then you'll be makin real money.

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Re: Coates Rotary Valve engines - A brilliant design that needs to be adopted NOW! [Re: im_on_a_boat]
    #8263085 -

all i can say is this is great and its timing for our engine needs is great.


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All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusions is called a philosopher. - Ambrose Bierce

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Re: Coates Rotary Valve engines - A brilliant design that needs to be adopted NOW! [Re: flangenips]
    #8265049 -

questions

1) how did they solve the sealing issue...

2) where can i have one manufactured for my car


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PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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Re: Coates Rotary Valve engines - A brilliant design that needs to be adopted NOW! [Re: ZippoZ]
    #8265152 -

Im gonna make a wild guess to your questions...
1) They wont tell you because of patent issues

2) You cant


:wink:

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Re: Coates Rotary Valve engines - A brilliant design that needs to be adopted NOW! [Re: ZippoZ]
    #8266511 -

1. You'd have to look up his patents to see exactly how his sealing tech works.

2. He licenses the system several different ways depending on your needs. You can most certainly get one for your car and I'm sure he'll help you with the design of your specific application. The question is do you have the money? I have no idea what he'd charge for an one off or small run.

It appears to me that he's focused on trying to get larger manufactures to license the system, but if you have the money I can't see why he wouldn't do a small run. His original intention was to build retrofit kits for the most popular engines.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: Coates Rotary Valve engines - A brilliant design that needs to be adopted NOW! [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #8278681 -

HagbardCeline said:
It isn't going to save us from oil completely, but it will make it easier. Far more efficient, durable, cleaner, and my personal favorite - powerful - we can only hope that big automakers quest for higher MPG and power from smaller engines finally convinces them to license and invest in this technology.

Just a few tidbits to wet your appetite.

1. At 5,500 RPM a 5.0L Ford V8 produced 260 hp and 249 lb.-ft of torque when stock. With the rotary valve heads and the same 5,500 RPM it made 475 hp and 454 lb.-ft of torque, with no other changes. Where the stock heads only flowed 180 cfm, the rotary heads flowed 319 cfm.
2. Since the most limiting factor to most engines in RPM's (among other things) is the valve train, with his design they were able to spin this 5.0L V8 to 14,750 RPM! That's Formula One or 600cc super bike territory!
3. Oil changes intervals of 50,000 miles. Without the need to lubricate the valve train, you won't get blow back and foul your oil so quickly.




Well, this seems like a great head design and flows a lot of air. This is great for building a muscle car or otherwise fast vehicle, but where is the MPG savings?

Higher RPM is not better, that means more gas is burned every minute.

Higher HP is not better because that HP is coming from burning more fuel and air at a faster rate.

A higher flowing head assists in burning MORE gas, not less.

I guess you get a shitload more miles between oil changes, but that won't hurt oil companies much. Especially if they are reaping the reward of you using a shitload of gas to run your badass rotary head engine.

To those of you who say we can make a smaller engine that makes higher HP, that gas savings is marginal at best. Small engines are only efficient because they DON'T flow as much air/fuel as big engines. A high output small engine still makes poor gas mileage.


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"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana

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Re: Coates Rotary Valve engines - A brilliant design that needs to be adopted NOW! [Re: Nephlyte]
    #8278714 -

Im gonna take a stab at this one.

If an engine of the same size produes more HP then you can achieve the same performance with lower rpms. If my F150 made 300 hp at 1000 rpm instead of 4500, then I wouldn't need to go into the higher range. Also with the increased power you would be able to change the gears in the tranny and achieve higher feul economy. There are many things that can be done to get more miles per gallon and most of them require higher power.

IMO the best way to get fuel milage is having the best gear ratio possible and the power to use it.


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Risk Management will be the downfall of western civilization

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Re: Coates Rotary Valve engines - A brilliant design that needs to be adopted NOW! [Re: perosiste]
    #8278989 -

perosiste said:
\There are many things that can be done to get more miles per gallon and most of them require higher power.


Well, this is clearly a more efficient engine, surely you'll get more MPG. But the only thing thats talked about in this article are things that use more fuel. I'd like to see them show some numbers regarding fuel economy.

Quote:
IMO the best way to get fuel milage is having the best gear ratio possible and the power to use it.


Yup. Overdrive is the best thing they ever did with fuel economy. They need to design a transmission that can flip into an 'overdrive' at lower speeds. The problem with this is the complexity that this brings.

I have a 66 Plymouth Valiant w/ an inline 6 engine. This engine was designed in 1959 and gets 20-24 mpg. This can be raised to 30-33 w/ an overdrive transmission. I'm probably going to do this even though it costs roughly 2000 dollars, i'll recoup my losses with current gas prices.

Its sad that modern vehicles average the efficiency i can get with an old-ass engine.

Anyway, sorry to get off the subject of the rotary engine.


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"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana

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Re: Coates Rotary Valve engines - A brilliant design that needs to be adopted NOW! [Re: Nephlyte]
    #8280953 -

Since you mentioned your classic. I have a 60 AMC rambler which was the first car with overdrive and it gets about 35-38 on the highway. All because the motor has alot of torque (power) and the gearing is right.

It mentioned testing on a ford engine Id like to see what my truck would do with this.

Also if you want good mpgs drive a stick and when your going down normal streets eg 35 mph or so, put the damned thing in fifth gear.


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Risk Management will be the downfall of western civilization

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Re: Coates Rotary Valve engines - A brilliant design that needs to be adopted NOW! [Re: perosiste]
    #8283628 -

perosiste said:
Since you mentioned your classic. I have a 60 AMC rambler which was the first car with overdrive and it gets about 35-38 on the highway. All because the motor has alot of torque (power) and the gearing is right.

drive a stick and when your going down normal streets eg 35 mph or so, put the damned thing in fifth gear.


Oh ya, is that thing still running good? I love old AMCs.

Agreed about the manual transmission idea. i used to do this with my truck and saved plenty of gas(though it was still a guzzler)

I wonder why market demands continually lead to very inefficient vehicles, even though very efficient designs are widely available.


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"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana

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Re: Coates Rotary Valve engines - A brilliant design that needs to be adopted NOW! [Re: Nephlyte]
    #8284524 -

You forgot to mention that your 1966 engine also used leaded gasoline and put out more pollution than a Chinese power plant. Without the pollution controls of modern engines and the ability to use leaded gas, which has a much higher octane rating, engines of that era were actually more efficient than those today. Now, technology and materials have caught up somewhat, but I don't think we've yet been able to do what those engines did.

If you actually go on Coates site I think they do talk about the better MPG. Like the other poster said, when you can get the same power out of a smaller engine, your efficiency is increased and consequently your MPG follows. Modern valve trains waste a great deal of energy through parasitic losses. One of the benefits to this technology is that it uses far less of the engines power to operate that function so either you get more power to the wheels or you can reduce displacement even more.

Another way that this technology will help is the profile of the engine. The height of this engine would be lower and would therefore allow for designs that aren't possible today. Possibly lowering the Cd for the vehicle so that wind resistance doesn't pose the same problem.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: Coates Rotary Valve engines - A brilliant design that needs to be adopted NOW! [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #8285544 -

I does do better on leaded gas, but ive found I get the best performance from running blends up to e95 For about a month I ran it on pure moonshine just to prove I could and it worked out pretty well.

Something about those old AMCs is they seem to run forever. Which begs the question why does my 48 year old car run better with less maintenance than my 3 year old truck. This seems to be the case with alot of old cars. WTF


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Risk Management will be the downfall of western civilization

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