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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: Gumby]
    #6799160 -

Gumby said:
JunkFood said:
Would you live in prison with dignity for the rest of your life? :smirk:


Sure I would, but can I hang myself with my underwear?

:smirk:


Nope.


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HOW'S MY POSTING? CLICK HERE

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: Asante]
    #6799182 -

It's strange...I think I might be more inclined to sacrifice myself if those people had not already died. If I was face to face with those 30+ people and told by a killer "either you go, or all of them go" I would feel obligated in some way to let the greater number of people live, although that decision would still be tough.

But when it is something that has already happened, I don't feel a pressing moral need to go back in time to make things right.

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: Asante]
    #6799331 -

You and your straightjacketed hypothetical scenarios...


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #6799350 -

From an existentialist point of view: shit happens. Call it greed if you like, but to me both options are just one of two paths history can take. Maybe if I knew one of them on a personal level I would, but I don't.


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Huuuuurrrrrr!

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: Asante]
    #6799598 -

No clever way around it ?
If one did go back in time and kill that dude they would probably be charged with murder but not found guilty once all of the evidence relating to the vt rampager was collected.
the 2 guns that he had, his writing/note whatever.


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https://files.shroomery.org/files/06-17/635734999-earth.jpg

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: Asante]
    #6799606 -

That's weird.  I proposed this same question to Dark_Star on AIM last night.  It would suck knowing how many lives you've saved but everyone just looking at you like a murderer.  :noway:

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: Asante]
    #6799630 -

I'd go back and kill him. Messianic complex FTW!


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The story goes, or the way that I was told
There was a king that always felt too high and then he fell too low
And so he called all the wise men to the hall
And begged them for a gift to end the rises and the falls
But here’s the thing, they came back with a ring
It was simple and was plainly unbefitting of a king
Engraved in black, it had no front or back
But there were words around the band that said
Just know: This Too Shall Pass


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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: NobodyCares]
    #6799673 -

All things, good and bad, happen for a reason. You never know what the safety precautions that arise from this situation could potentially prevent or cause in the future. Also, if you went back in time to kill him, and got arrested for it, you'd have no defense other than, "I travelled back in time to kill this guy, who was planning on killing many people." They'd throw you in the loony bin for sure, and some other psycho would end up playing the role of the guy you killed because there would still be a lack of security. In my opinion, this guy was a fucking jerk off who couldn't have just killed himself in his own home because he was a pussy, but instead he had to take others with him. What a waste of life.


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Long you live and high you fly
And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be.
-Pink Floyd-

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: Hippie Chemist]
    #6799736 -

Given the choice I would not go back in time to try and prevent this, sounds a bit minority report. I wouldn't do it because it wouldn't be good to interfere with the timeline.

I once had a really fucked up dream, I was standing in a barn with a couple and I was apparently best friends with the guy though upon recollection I've no idea who it was. Anyhoo: They were both occupied and their child was running around in a circle between us all (he looked about 2 or something) and there was a big heavy projector hanging precariously from the roof.
As the boy runs under it the bracket gives way and crushes the little boy to death, the parents cry out and rush to him, screaming horribly. Just as they reach him I'm overwhelmed with a flash of bright light and I see a brief glimpse into their futures, they never have another child and begin to abuse alcohol before eventually levelling out and living happy lives with each other.
The flash fades and I'm standing there again about a minute before the bracket broke, I see this happening and rush forward catching the child and leaving him safe before the projector falls. I feel a massively horrible feeling of utter panic, thinking "I just changed history, I shouldn't have done that, fuck, fuck, fuck, AAAAHHHH!!!". But the parents are overjoyed, they rush over to thank me and their eyes are filled with tears of joy, then suddenly a feeling of deja vu and a white flash begins again. I see a new alternate future for them, the child grows up, gets into serious drug abuse and starts stealing, he eventually stabs his mother, she kills herself, he runs away and the father drinks himself almost comatose.
Flash fades and I'm standing next to myself again about a minute before the bracket breaks and I think I can't put the parents through that so this time I force myself out of the way, the bracket breaks and the child dies. This time the parents focus all of their hate and anger towards me "Why did you do that?" "You killed our son, you let him die!!". Most fucked up dream I've ever had....Left me totally confused and with a real sense of unease for days.


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"There are only two states of being: Too much and not enough"

Isnt the war on drugs supposed to reduce harm? So far all i see are casualties.

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: j3ckyl]
    #6799824 -

Wow, thats a detailed dream!
I think you did the right thing. (wake up I mean)


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Omnicyclion.org
personal empowerment for the world

:nyan: LGBT - Love God Before Tradition :nyan:

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: j3ckyl]
    #6799852 -

Baby killer.:mad2:

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: Asante]
    #6799860 -

Didn't finish reading all the replies, but...

I would let the events unfold as they did. I don't think I'm wise enough to make that kind of decision. Plus, going out of my way to kill someone else is still wrong and is still a compromise of my own principles. Like most anyone I'd be happy to go back in time and simply stop him in some fashion, but if it's a kill or not kill situation, I'd have to go with not kill.


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Happiness is a warm gun...

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: Asante]
    #6799949 -

Didn't read all the replies. I would go back to his conception. Walk into the room where his parents are doing it and smack the dad right on the ass. He'd be too freaked out to finish. So the would-be killer would just be another stain on his daddy's goo rag.


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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: Asante]
    #6799958 -

You wouldn't just be charged with murder; you would be a murderer.
Regardless of the thoughts of the person, a thought does not become truly bad until it turns into an action. So, you would be killing an innocent who had done nothing.

Personally I find the killing of any person distasteful. Maiming, sure, but killing, no. Especially when that person had not done anything, regardless of what he was going to do.

So, no, I couldn't. If I was right there when he was shooting, yes. The decision had been made. But, he probably hadn't decided to do this at the point where you travel back to. I'm sure it was a thought tickling the back of his head, but not a concrete decision. He had done nothing wrong at that point, punishment is not an option.

By the way, I don't agree with utilitarian ethics. :smirk:


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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: LloydChristmas]
    #6799972 -

Have you ever read Making History from Stephen Fry? They did that with Hitler's dad by sending sterility pills back in time into the well outside of their house. They prevented the birth of Hitler, but someone worse than him rose up and did his work anyway.

I think by doing that you'd either make the massacre worse, or simply have a different shooter.

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: Asante]
    #6800107 -

Normally I don't remember much and it was because of the emotions and the detail that I remember it now, afterwards I ended up smacking the father away and trying to beat the mother with a book and someone shouting "She won't like that" Another shouting "Look at the cover" and it said "A simple guide to obedience" And laughter erupts from nowhere. Just weird...


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"There are only two states of being: Too much and not enough"

Isnt the war on drugs supposed to reduce harm? So far all i see are casualties.

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: Asante]
    #6800703 -

yeah but if you went back in time to stop it from happening it would of never happened and you never would of gone back intime...


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i'm a very evolved ape you know.

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: Asante]
    #6803490 -

Actually, I was thinking about this last night, a little. Just as a theoretical, what if that is what happened? What if this loner kid who was all shy and shit traveled back here to kill 32 people that would eventually go on to become hitler's, or rapists, or whatever, and then killed himself because he did not want to go to jail, and knew that he could never explain his reasoning? Just a thought based on the original theory of the post.

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Re: Ethical dilemma [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #6803530 -

"IF ANYTHING UNFOLDS ITS SUPPOSED TO"
-jOHN fRUSCIANTE


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