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 brainlessjon Stranger   Registered: 09/29/06 Posts: 55 Loc: Missouri Last seen: 19 years, 9 months |
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Other than the basic structure of the church how do Protestants and Catholics differ?
The Catholic Church says there are a total of 1.1 billion baptized members around the globe. The faith is growing rapidly in Asia and Africa. There are about 590 million Protestants worldwide. Nearly 27% of all Christians today are Protestants (Info via wikipedia)
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Lion Decadent Flower Magnate   Registered: 09/20/05 Posts: 8,775 Last seen: 4 months, 24 days |
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it has something to do with wafers and sin
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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fivepointer newbie Registered: 08/03/02 Posts: 1,428 Last seen: 9 years, 11 months |
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Auto-SummaryThe key differences between Catholics and Protestants revolve around doctrine, particularly justification. Catholics believe justification is achieved through infused righteousness, grace, and man's cooperation, whereas Reformation Protestants hold that justification is a free gift, not based on human actions. Another major difference is the role of scripture; Protestants adhere to Sola Scriptura (scripture alone), while Catholics subvert scripture to church interpretation, creating a false gospel. The post also criticizes the Catholic Church for idolatry, totalitarianism, the Papacy, the priesthood, Mariolatry, the veneration of saints, and anti-Christ teachings. It concludes that Catholicism requires dependence on the church for salvation, whereas Protestantism emphasizes individual faith in Christ alone.
Numbers do not make something true. The primary difference is the doctrine of justification. Romanism teaches that justification is by infused righteousness, grace is given, man synergizes with it, and this mixing results in justification. Reformation Protestantism (not modern Protestantism) teaches that justification is a free gift and is not given because man does something, but despite what a man does, he is justified. It teaches that Christ died to save the elect, and in time they are converted, not because they are worthy, but only because God has freely chosen them out of the mass of fallen men. Sola Scriptura, meaning scripture alone is the sole source of doctrine is the hallmark of Reformation Protestantism. Romanism subverts scripture to "official church interpretation" and thus destroys the scripture as a source of doctrine. Romanism is a false gospel, and every single person who believes what it teaches is lost. Below is snipped from: http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=42 The Main Errors of Rome 1. Idolatry and superstition. Now there is nothing that is so condemned in the Scripture as idolatry. We are not to make "graven images." But the Roman State-Church is full of images. She teaches her people to worship images; they worship statues and forms and representations. If you have been to any of their great cathedrals you will have seen people doing so. Go to St. Peterís in Rome and you will notice that there is a sort of monument to the apostle Peter, and if you look at one of the toes you will find that it is smooth and worn away. Why? Because so many poor victims of Roman Catholic teaching have been there kissing this toe! They bow with reverence and they worship images, statues, and relics. They claim to have relics of certain saints a bit of bone, something he used and it is put in a special place and they worship it and bow down before it. This is nothing but pagan idolatry. 2. Totalitarianism The Roman State-Church claims that she is essential to salvation. Outside the church “extra ecclesia”, there is no salvation “nulla salus”. She is absolutely essential. She puts herself between my soul and the Lord Jesus Christ. She arrogates that position to herself. You do not find anything like that in the New Testament, but you find it in Romanism. She alone knows what the full truth is, she claims. She describes it, and she alone can define it and interpret it. Over against that, of course, Protestantism teaches the "universal priesthood of all believers" and the right of every man to read the Scripture for himself and to interpret it under the illumination of the Holy Spirit. Rome denies that completely and absolutely. She, and she alone, is able to understand and to interpret the Scripture and to tell us what to believe. She says this partly because she claims that she has received "continuing revelation." She does not believe, as Christians do, that revelation ended with what we have in the New Testament. She claims a continuing and a continuous revelation. She therefore does not hesitate to say that you must add to the truth in the Scriptures. While saying that the Bible is the Word of God, she claims that her tradition is equally authoritative and equally binding. That is the way in which she destroys the Bible, because she says things in her tradition that deny Biblical teaching. Rome claims our totalitarian allegiance. She claims to govern us in what we believe and in what we do. She claims to be responsible for our soul and its salvation. We must therefore submit utterly and absolutely to what the church tells us and what the church teaches us. She has a totalitarian system. There is no question but that she binds the souls of her people absolutely, as much as Communism does, as much as Hitler did. It is a totalitarian system. The State-Church is supreme and thus stands between us and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3. The Papacy The pope is said to be the vicar of Christ. He is said to be a direct spiritual descendant of the apostle Peter apostolic succession who has all the authority of the apostle Peter. Thus, this person whom they call the Holy Father though the Scripture tells us specifically not to call any man "Father" on Earth because there is only one Father, the Father who is in Heaven is the "Holy Father," the "Vicar of Christ." And they say that speaking ex cathedra he is "infallible." They defined that doctrine in 1870; they believed it long before. But now, as thus defined, his pronouncements are claimed to be infallible as infallible as the Word of God, as infallible as Christ himself for he is the vicar and the representative of Christ. The power of this church is concentrated in this one man who speaks, as 2 Thessalonians 2 says, "as God." He is worshiped by people; they bow down before him, and they express to him a sense of adoration that should be given to no one but the almighty God himself. 4. The Priests and Bishops The priests and Bishops in the Roman State-Church are very special people. They do not believe in the universal priesthood of all believers. The only people who are "priests" are those whom the church herself has trained, and who have been ordained, and who receive something of this authority which comes from the "apostolic succession." But 1 Peter 2:9 tells us that we are all priests: "You are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood." In other words, "a kingdom of priests." No, says Rome, you are the laity, you are not priests, these alone are priests. Then they attribute to these priests certain unique powers, such as that of working miracles. Here we come to a very central and crucial matter. They claim that the priest is able to change the water that they use in baptism so that grace enters into it. They claim that the priest is able to work a miracle in connection with the bread and the wine at the Mass, that he is able to work this miracle of what they call "transubstantiation." They say that the bread is no longer bread but that it becomes the body of Christ, that the accidents of color and so on remain but that the substance has been changed into the body of Christ, and that this miracle has been worked by the priest. That in turn brings in their whole doctrine concerning the sacraments. They have seven sacraments. They do not hesitate to teach that in those sacraments miracles are worked. Their theory is that this miracle worked by the priest in the water and the bread and the wine charges them with the grace of God in a special manner so that they work more or less automatically. Their phrase is that they work "ex opere operato." In other words, it is no longer just water; it is charged with the grace of God, and therefore when it is put upon that child a miracle is worked in the child. Or when you take the bread in the Mass, you are really taking the body of Christ himself. There is not a word about this in the New Testament. The priest is also the one to whom we must go and confess our sins, because he has power to pronounce absolution and to grant us forgiveness of sins. Nobody else can do it except this priesthood, these people to whom they allocate these special powers. So the people are taught to go and confess to them. There is not a word of that in the Scripture. We confess our faults to God and to one another in the Christian Church; but not to a "priest." 5. Mariolatry The cult of the Virgin Mary in Romanism is increasing rapidly. They say that she is the "Queen of Heaven," and that she is the one to whom we should go primarily. In many of their churches, you will find that she is placed in front of the Lord Jesus Christ, who is almost hidden by her somewhere in the background. Why? This is what they say: She being human is much more loving and tender than he is; he is so great and powerful and authoritative, that he is stern; this is what they teach, this is the whole explanation of the cult of the Virgin Mary that he is such that we cannot go to him directly. Ah, but fortunately she is there and she is loving; and after all she was his mother and she can influence him. So we should pray to the Virgin Mary and ask her to intercede on our behalf. She is right there between us and the Son of God, the Savior of our souls. And increasingly they have been adding to her power. They began in 1854 to teach the "Immaculate Conception," which means that Mary was born free from sin. They announced in 1950 the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary that she never died and was buried, but that she ascended up to Heaven even as her Son did. This so builds up the Virgin Mary and makes her so prominent that Christ himself is obscured. 6. The Saints Lastly, add to the Virgin Mary the saints. Roman Catholic people are taught to pray to the saints. How does this come to pass? Well, their teaching is this: They believe in perfectionism in this life, and they say that some of these saints have lived a perfect life. The result of this is that they have acquired and built up so much "merit" that they have much more than they need for themselves; so they have a superabundance of merit. The result is that you and I, who may be failing and who are so lacking in merit, can go and pray to the saints and ask them to give to us a certain amount of their superabundance. They call this work "supererogation," that the saints can intercede for us and can even impart some of their over plus of merit to us to makeup the deficiency and the lack which is to be found in us. The merit of Jesus Christ is not enough; you must have something extra; it needs to be supplemented. 7. Anti-Christ Take their teaching with regard to the question of justification justification by faith. As Luther said, this is "the test of a standing or a falling church" the whole glory of Protestantism, the thing that brought it into being. It is not surprising that Romanism is increasing when Protestants do not know what justification means. Romanism is bound to succeed while Protestants think that merely to live a good life is enough. It is not surprising that Romanism is sweeping through the countries and the nations. Roman teaching is that good works meritorious works are possible in man, in sinful man; that man can contribute something to his own justification. They believe that and teach that. We teach that "there is none righteous, no, not one," that "all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags," or, as the apostle Paul put it in writing to the Philippians, "dung" refuse, worthless. No, no, they say, there is value in it and it will count, it will help. But still more serious is that ultimately they teach that justification is the result of baptism. That is where it all links up. In baptism, they teach, not only are your sins forgiven, but also a righteousness is infused into you; you are made righteous by your baptism. Though you were an unconscious infant, it does not matter; you are given this righteousness; your original sin is cancelled there, and you are given this positive righteousness. Incidentally, it is not the righteousness of Christ, according to them; it is a righteousness that is made by God for those who are baptized. They are not "clothed with the righteousness of Christ," but they are made righteous in the sight of God. And the result is that they denounce as dangerous heresy the Protestant teaching of justification by faith alone. Everything in their teaching makes one dependent upon the church. Are you saying that you can repent and go to Christ and believe in him and be saved? No, you must have this operation worked upon you by the priest through your baptism. All along, it makes the priest and the church absolutely essential. You are helpless without them; you are bound to them. There is no direct dealing with Christ; you have always to go through these intermediaries. The Bible says that there is only one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. Not so in Rome Mary, the pope, the priests and all the hierarchy and all the underlings, all these are necessary. So on this vital doctrine of justification they teach a lie. Then you come to the question of the Christian life. Here is another serious matter. The emphasis is not so much upon holy living as upon our observation of ceremonies and rites. They teach their people not so much to strive after holiness and to understand the New Testament teaching about sanctification; they teach the people to attend Mass and to go and confess to the priest. There is none of this direct responsibility and holding men there before the teaching and exhorting them to practice it. No, the teaching is that you have to conform to the rules of the church. You watch the ceremonies, and you do what they tell you: You fast at certain times and you do this and don’t do that, and you attend your priest and make your confession. You come to the Mass and then go and do virtually what you like. You are covered, you are put right again, and on you go. Instead of holy living in its simplicity as we have it in the Scriptures, you have ceremonies and rites and observances. 8. No Assurance of Salvation Another serious error is that it completely denies the doctrine of "assurance of salvation." There is nothing more glorious than the doctrine of assurance of salvation. There is a magnificent statement of it in Romans 8:16: "The Spirit bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God." Do you know what that means? There is nothing more wonderful than that, but the Roman Church denies it completely. There is no such thing as certainty in this life. Why? This is her argument, and it is quite plausible. (That is where the system is seen to be so devilish: No one less than the Devil could have worked it all out with this extraordinary ingenuity.) It works like this. In your baptism your original sin is cancelled and you are made righteous and you are right with God. Ah yes, but what about post-baptismal sins, what about the sins that are committed after baptism? Your baptism has nothing to do with that. What are you going to do about that? That is the problem. Biblical teaching is that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin and unrighteousness; that what he did on the cross covers my past sins, my present sins, my future sins. The one act was enough. No, no, says Rome, it is not enough. The problem of your post-baptismal sins is a different one. What do I do about them? I must go and confess to the priest; he alone can deal with them. But even he cannot deal with them all, so I may come to the end of my life, and here I am with these post-baptismal sins threatening me with Hell and damnation. What can I do? It is all-right, they say, here is the sacrament of penance. The priest alone can administer that for you. So you have the sacrament of penance, you make an unusual confession, and you are given absolution. Does that guarantee that I am all right? No, not even that! That takes you most of the way, but there will still be some sins that are not forgiven. What do I do about them? Well, fortunately, there is a place, they tell us, which is called "purgatory"; and I am allowed to go there to get rid of this remaining sin which is unforgiving, this post-baptismal sin that is unforgiving. What happens to me there? Well, my relatives who are still left are praying for me, and they are paying money as they do so. So you have all the "indulgences" and all the "prayers for the dead," and all your candles and the money paid. The more you pay, the sooner will these sins be dealt with in purgatory, and the sooner will this person be allowed to go on. According to Rome, the work of Christ is not enough; it must be supplemented in all these ways.
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MarkostheGnostic Elder  Registered: 12/10/99 Posts: 14,279 Loc: South Florida 
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months |
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Please do not forget Orthodoxy - Greek, Russian, Romanian. Their's is a unique theology which is the most 'psychedelic' in all of Chistendom IMO. The Roman Catholic Church is as evil as the rabid fundamentalists say, and the rabid Protestant fundamentalists who take their original cue from Martin Luther, a virulent antisemite, burned as many Pagans and Jews as the Catholic did, while the Orthodox do not have as hateful a legacy (Spanish Catholic Inquisitioners wore peaked black hoods, American Protestant Ku Klux Klan wear white peaked hoods). Of course, mere numbers lie, so don't forget that the most accurate and life-enhancing doctrines in Christendom may well belong to sects which were deemed heretical by the large denominations. This is not to say that ALL non-Orthodoxies are equal, but clearly Christianity is not manifesting holiness through most of its adherents in my daily experience - how about yours? Remember this - doctrines are not salvific, only God is salvific and God is not 'Christian.'
Peace be with you. -------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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 Silversoul Rhizome  Registered: 01/01/05 Posts: 23,576 Loc: The Barricades |
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If I recall, the Russian Orthodox church recently protested Madonna playing in Russia because she practices the Kabbalah. I do agree that Orthodox theology is the most interesting of the mainstream churches, but in practice, the Orthodox church is at least as intolerant as Catholics or evangelicals.
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fivepointer newbie Registered: 08/03/02 Posts: 1,428 Last seen: 9 years, 11 months |
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Does the scripture say we should base who is a Christian based on outward appearance of personal piety? If that were true then the Pharisees, who outwardly appeared as righteous men, should be considered godly men. They had an outward appearance, but when the truth of the gospel was declared to them did they believe it? No. What someone believes determines whether or not they are a Christian. All those believing the gospel are Christian. It is very simple. Does doctrine save someone? No. Christ's work alone is the only thing that saves someone. Doctrine does not save, but doctrine is the immediate fruit of conversion. No one is saved without a belief of the gospel.
Contrary to what apostate Christendom says, the gospel is very clearly defined and is immediately revealed upon conversion. Sincerity, good deeds, reforming bad ways, ect. are carried out by many religious people who might be Roman Catholics, Arminians, Mormans, Hindus, Buddists, Jewish, Muslim, ect.. It does not matter how dedicated or sincere these people might be, they are lost, for they have not the truth of the gospel shown to them. Only one way, and one gospel, all other ways lead to no where. Christians are not out to please men with doctrines pleasing to their ears, the truth of the gospel an offense to the unregenerated mind.
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Silversoul Rhizome Registered: 01/01/05 Posts: 23,576 Loc: The Barricades |
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Oh, quit being such a Pharisee.
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brainlessjon Stranger Registered: 09/29/06 Posts: 55 Loc: Missouri Last seen: 19 years, 9 months |
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Could Christianity just be a false growth from Judaism? Judaism is the monotheistic faith that spawned Catholicism that split with eastern Orthodoxy. Then Catholicism budded Protestant reform that split into the churches that dot America. I have no authority on this subject I just thought it was an interesting topic.
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MarkostheGnostic Elder Registered: 12/10/99 Posts: 14,279 Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 5 years, 8 months |
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Hmmmm. Is that right? I stand corrected. I am still interested in the Orthodox theology of Uncreated Energies. It is a theology of immanence which allows for 'theosis' - the idea that the human being can ultimately be transformed into Christ. The Catholic doctrine which has informed Protestant doctrines made Jesus the Christ unto a specie all His own in the fight against Arius at Nicaea. By Athanasius winning his argument, and 'the Son' being made equal to God, the man Jesus (declared fully God, fully man) was to be placed on a pedestal to be worshipped, not set as The example to be emulated (in His openness to the Divine Indwelling). This notion of immanence in Jesus the Christ alone has heretofore been misunderstood by practically every Christian since Jesus with the exception of Christian mystics and certain Gnostic Christians.
The radical departure from the utterly Transcendent Godhead in Judaism and later Islam lies in exactly this doctrine of Divine Immanence which Orthodox theology brings closer to home. Certain Gnostic scriptures, particularly Thomas make this immanence abundantly clear, but of course, this Truth was almost destroyed at the inception of Christianity. The acceptance of Divine Immanence, capable of being experienced (Gnosis) would allow for a true brotherhood of humanity, but of course heretic fundamentalists of every faith who condemn one another's religion on the basis of outer doctrinal differences rather than seeking and finding the essential Unity of Truth at the core will continue to retard the spiritual growth and development of humankind. Bigots one and all, they are known for their infernal fruits of hatred, condemnation and utter miscomprehension of scriptures due to uncritical brainwashing (in most cases, just a light rinse was all that was needed  ). One does not have to go too far to get a good example of my point.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself Edited by MarkostheGnostic (10/18/06 05:36 PM)
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Gomp ¡(Bound to·(O))be free!  Registered: 09/11/04 Posts: 10,890 Loc: I re·side [prim Last seen: 8 months, 5 days |
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This might be wrong, but I think I am raised by protestant parents... Anyways, I think it is as easy, as the fact that you on your-own, can read the bible, study with others, and make your own connection with God.. Where the Catholics think that ONLY the Pope, can connect with God.. And ONLY Priests can read and "talk about God's words".. Do tell me if I am wrong though, it would be interesting to "know for sure" .. Good question!  "With/As/Through God!" ~Unknown
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Economist in training  Registered: 10/11/05 Posts: 1,285 Last seen: 19 years, 2 months |
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Oh dear, it looks like someone dug up some anti-Catholic propaganda and bought into it hook-line-and-sinker...
Ah, the usual Saint Strawman. Anyone who actually studies Catholicism knows that this is just pure bull. No one prays to the Saints for the express purpose of asking the Saints to grant them anything. All prayers are directed at God. It is possible to ask someone who has already passed away, and has a good relationship with God (i.e. a Saint) to pray for you, in addition to your own prayers. This is founded in the Gospels, we know that Jesus encouraged the disciples to ask the past Prophets to pray for them. Saints are no different. You can choose to interpret them differently, but you are wrong. The same goes for the statues themselves. The statues are not worshipped, only God is worshipped.
Oh dear! Someone never took the time to read the Second Vatican Council's documents. Please read Lumen Gentium (available here: http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm ) It expressly states that the Roman State-Church is NOT essential to salvation.
This isn't even remotely true. The whole point of Synods within the Catholic Church is to discuss, debate, and further our own interpretations of scripture. You could read this is Christus Dominus, posted above, or you can get the short version off of wikipedia ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synod_of_Bishops#Roman_Catholic_usage )
This is a complete mischaracterization. In reality the Pope has only been confirmed to have spoken "ex Cathedra" twice in the history of the Church. Even if you get into serious theological debate concerning the doctrine prior to the 1800s, there have been AT MOST 10 ex Cathedra proclamations in the whole 2000 years of the Church. Furthermore, the right of the descendants of Peter to speak ex Cathedra is backed by scripture (Matthew 28:20, John 14:26, John 21:15-17, Luke 10:16, Luke 22:31-32, 1 John 2:27, Acts 15:28) I don't have time now, but I'll try to get to the rest of the points later (some, such as the ludricrous repeated claims about Saint Worship and worship of Mary are refuted above), but I'd be very concerned about whoever produced this document. It's clear that they aren't familiar with the Catholic faith at all. They may not even be clear on the Christian faith, you know with the whole "Judge not, lest ye yourself be judged..."
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fivepointer newbie Registered: 08/03/02 Posts: 1,428 Last seen: 9 years, 11 months |
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Auto-SummaryThe post outlines numerous false teachings from the Roman Catholic Church, citing key Church Councils and the New Catholic Catechism. Notable points include: The list of false teachings from Rome is huge. It is hard to know where to begin. Below is an incomplete list of RC positions. Excerpt from: http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/Catholicism/catholic.htm ... 8. The Church Councils. There have been three major Roman Catholic Councils: Council of Trent (1545-1563), Vatican I (1869-1870), and Vatican II (1962-1965). The last Council, Vatican II, offered no new doctrines nor repudiated any essential teaching of the Roman Church; it referred to Trent dozens and dozens of times, quoted Trent's proclamations as authority, and reaffirmed Trent on every hand. Even the New Catholic Catechism (1992/1994) cites Trent no less than 99 times! There is not the slightest hint that the proclamations of the Council of Trent have been abrogated by Rome. At the opening of the Second Vatican council, Pope John XXIII stated, "I do accept entirely all that has been decided and declared at the Council of Trent," and all of the Catholic leaders who attended Vatican II signed a document containing this statement. (The current pope, Pope John Paul II, has even cited the Council of Trent as authority for his blasphemous position on Mary.): Council of Trent -- The Council of Trent was held in an attempt to destroy the progress of the Protestant Reformation; it approved many superstitious and unbiblical beliefs of the Middle Ages (all to be believed under the threat of "anathema"): (a) Denied every doctrine of the Reformation, from Sola Scriptura to "salvation by grace through faith alone"; (b) Pronounced 125 anathemas (i.e., eternal damnation) upon anyone believing what evangelicals believe and preach today; (c) Equal value and authority of tradition and Scripture (in actuality, tradition is held above Scripture); (d) Scriptures for the priesthood only (prohibited to anyone in the laity without written permission from one's superior -- to violate this was [and still is in most "Catholic countries" today] considered a mortal sin); (e) Seven sacraments; (f) Communion by eating the bread only (not drinking the wine); (g) Purgatory; (h) Indulgences; (i) The Mass as a propitiatory offering. Vatican I (a) Defined the infallibility of the pope; (b) Confirmed Unum Sanctum (no salvation outside of the Catholic Church). Vatican II -- made no new doctrines, nor did it change or repudiate any old ones; Trent and Vatican I stand as is (i.e., Vatican II verified and validated all the anathemas of Trent). Vatican II reaffirmed such Roman heresies as papal supremacy; the Roman priesthood; the mass as an unbloody sacrifice of Christ; a polluted sacramental gospel; Catholic tradition on equal par with Scripture; Mary as the Queen of Heaven and co-Redemptrix with Christ; auricular confession; Mariolatry; pilgrimages to "holy shrines"; purgatory; prayers to and for the dead; etc. (Although the restriction against laity reading the Scriptures has been removed, it is still a mortal sin for a Roman Catholic anywhere to read any Protestant version of the Bible. That the real attitude of the Vatican toward the Bible has not changed is shown by the fact that in 1957 the depot of the British and Foreign Bible Society in Madrid, Spain was closed and its stock of Bibles confiscated and burned.) (a) Reaffirmed the infallibility of the pope (and even when he does not speak ex-cathedra, all Catholics must still give complete submission of mind and will to what he says); (b) Divided Catholic doctrine into that which is essential core of theology, and must be received by faith, and that which is still an undefined body of theology which Catholics may question and debate without repudiating their essential Catholicism; (c) Established 20 complex rules concerning when and how any indulgence may be obtained, and condemned "with anathema those who say that indulgences are useless or that the Church does not have the power to grant them ... [for] the task of winning salvation." ... End of excerpt --------------------------------------------------- From the New Catholic Catechism 1994: Scripture overridden by traditions of the RC church: 80 Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture, then, are bound closely together and communicate one with the other. 82 As a result the Church, to whom the transmission and interpretation of Revelation is entrusted, "does not derive her certainty about all revealed truths from the holy Scriptures alone. Both Scripture and Tradition must be accepted and honoured with equal sentiments of devotion and reverence. Scripture is only to be interpreted by the RC church: 100 The task of interpreting the Word of God authentically has been entrusted solely to the Magisterium of the Church, that is, to the Pope and to the bishops in communion with him. No salvation outside of the Catholic Church: The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God." New Catholic Catechism explains: 846 Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation ... thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it. Salvation open for Muslims, but not for Reformation Protestants (see anathemas of Trent). If you know what the Mother of Harlots teaches and reject it, there is no salvation outside the RC church. "Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience those too may achieve eternal salvation" (Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, 16). 841 The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day. (New Catholic Catechism) Salvation through water baptism of the RC church: 1250 Born with a fallen human nature and tainted by original sin, children also have need of the new birth in Baptism to be freed from the power of darkness and brought into the realm of the freedom of the children of God ... The Church and the parents would deny a child the priceless grace of becoming a child of God were they not to confer Baptism shortly after birth. 1263 By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin. 1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. ... The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism... 1265 Baptism not only purifies from all sins, but also makes the neophyte "a new creature," an adopted son of God, who has become a "partaker of the divine nature," member of Christ and co-heir with him, and a temple of the Holy Spirit. 1267 ... From the baptismal fonts is born the one People of God of the New Covenant...
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Basilides Servent ofWisdom  Registered: 02/10/06 Posts: 7,059 Loc: Crown and Heart Last seen: 15 years, 5 months |
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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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gregorio Too Damn Old  Registered: 09/08/05 Posts: 2,837 Loc: Classified Last seen: 2 years, 6 months |
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That is not what Catholics think nor are they taught that.
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Gomp ¡(Bound to·(O))be free! Registered: 09/11/04 Posts: 10,890 Loc: I re·side [prim Last seen: 8 months, 5 days |
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Refusal but no back up claim? Elaborate?
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Basilides Servent ofWisdom Registered: 02/10/06 Posts: 7,059 Loc: Crown and Heart Last seen: 15 years, 5 months |
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You said something about Catholics believing that only church authorities have the prerogative of direct connection to God, which he countered with a claim that this was not the case.
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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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kotik fuckingsuperhero  Registered: 06/29/04 Posts: 3,531 Last seen: 6 years, 9 months |
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you are both speaking in absolutes, so you are both wrong. -------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Gomp ¡(Bound to·(O))be free! Registered: 09/11/04 Posts: 10,890 Loc: I re·side [prim Last seen: 8 months, 5 days |
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Absolutes? Read up there dear you..
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kotik fuckingsuperhero Registered: 06/29/04 Posts: 3,531 Last seen: 6 years, 9 months |
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this is all in theory, not practice.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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know_Gods_love Stranger Registered: 10/22/06 Posts: 3 Last seen: 19 years, 8 months |
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just like every denomination of Christianity, the difference is in worshiping, practices, the adding and subtracting of different material of the Bible, and its different interpretations of the Bible that lead to misconduct, and unnecessary ammounts of time spent with God, and not enough with our actual lives, we need a balance, other denominations understand that balance.
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