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1stimer
Religion=Rape
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Mentally ill troops forced into combat
#5626291 - 05/13/06 09:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/13/military.suicides.ap/index.html
Quote:
Military not following own rules on deployment, paper says HARTFORD, Connecticut (AP) -- U.S. military troops with severe psychological problems have been sent to Iraq or kept in combat, even when superiors have been aware of signs of mental illness, a newspaper reported in its Sunday editions.
The Hartford Courant, citing records obtained under the federal Freedom of Information Act and more than 100 interviews of families and military personnel, reported numerous cases in which the military failed to follow its own regulations in screening, treating and evacuating mentally unfit troops from Iraq.
In 1997, Congress ordered the military to assess the mental health of all deploying troops. The newspaper, citing Pentagon statistics, said fewer than 1 in 300 service members were referred to a mental health professional before shipping out for Iraq as of October 2005.
Twenty-two U.S. troops committed suicide in Iraq last year. That number accounts for nearly one in five of all noncombat deaths and was the highest suicide rate since the war started, the newspaper said.
The paper reported that some service members who committed suicide in 2004 or 2005 were kept on duty despite clear signs of mental distress, sometimes after being prescribed antidepressants with little or no mental health counseling or monitoring. Those findings conflict with regulations adopted last year by the Army that caution against the use of antidepressants for "extended deployments."
Although Defense Department standards for enlistment disqualify recruits who suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, the military also is redeploying service members to Iraq who fit that criteria, the newspaper said.
"I can't imagine something more irresponsible than putting a soldier suffering from stress on (antidepressants), when you know these drugs can cause people to become suicidal and homicidal," said Vera Sharav, president of the Alliance for Human Research Protection, a New York-based advocacy group. "You're creating chemically activated time bombs."
Commanders, not medical professionals, have final say over whether a troubled soldier is retained in a war zone. Col. Elspeth Ritchie, the Army's top mental health expert, and other military officials said they believe most commanders are alert to mental health problems and are open to referring troubled soldiers for treatment.
Ritchie acknowledged that some deployment practices, such as sending service members diagnosed with post-traumatic stress syndrome back into combat, have been driven in part by a troop shortage.
"The challenge for us ... is that the Army has a mission to fight. And, as you know, recruiting has been a challenge," she said. "And so we have to weigh the needs of the Army, the needs of the mission, with the soldiers' personal needs."
Ritchie insisted the military works hard to prevent suicides, but it is a challenge because every soldier has access to a weapon.
"I'm concerned that people who are symptomatic are being sent back. That has not happened before in our country," said Arthur S. Blank Jr., a Yale-trained psychiatrist who helped get post-traumatic stress disorder recognized as a diagnosis after the Vietnam War.
Maj. Andrew Efaw, a judge advocate general officer in the Army Reserves who handled trial defenses for soldiers in northern Iraq last year, said commanders don't want to send mentally ill soldiers into combat.
"But on the other hand, [the com mender] doesn't want to send a message to his troops that if you act up, he's willing to send you home," Efaw said.
-------------------- ash dingy donker mo gollyhopper patty popiton rockstop bueno mayo riggedy jig bobber johnathan pattywhacker gogboob t-shirt monkey. There is such emotion in the distortion.
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RandalFlagg
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: 1stimer]
#5627378 - 05/14/06 02:32 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I actually saw an article on the U.S. soldier suicide rate. It's not as high as you think. When compared to the suicide rate of normal civilians it is very similar (it is only slightly higher). That's not bad considering that being away from your family for a year and being exposed to a war zone can be very stressful.
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Phred
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5627605 - 05/14/06 07:26 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
I actually saw an article on the U.S. soldier suicide rate. It's not as high as you think. When compared to the suicide rate of normal civilians it is very similar (it is only slightly higher).
It's actually lower.
Phred
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: Phred]
#5627852 - 05/14/06 10:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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The military lies about the suicide rate. It's actually much higher than what they say it is.
I have a friend who was the first to arrive at the scene after an officer killed himself in Desert Storm.
It was never reported by the military as a suicide.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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buckwheat
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: 1stimer]
#5627978 - 05/14/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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This has going on for a long time. My brother in the late 80's was accepted when he shouldnt have been.And they released him when my mom threatend to sue.
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trauma47645
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: buckwheat]
#5627990 - 05/14/06 10:47 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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it may seem like it is about the same as the civilain population but look at it in terms of the amount of people in each population then the suicide rate rockets up in the military.. People fail to see the proportions
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Phred
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: trauma47645]
#5628020 - 05/14/06 11:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
it may seem like it is about the same as the civilain population but look at it in terms of the amount of people in each population then the suicide rate rockets up in the military.. People fail to see the proportions.
Incorrect. See this thread for actual numbers -- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2566522
You want to talk about comparing apples to apples, the most logical thing to do is compare the suicide rate of the civilian demographic which most closely matches the makeup of the military. The closest category for which it is easy to find figures is "male, 20 - 34 years old". The suicide rate for males 20 to 34 years old is double that of the military suicide rate.
Phred
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: Phred]
#5628343 - 05/14/06 12:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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* official military suicide rate.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
Edited by Baby_Hitler (05/14/06 12:49 PM)
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Phred
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5628408 - 05/14/06 01:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ah yes... the standard answer given by anyone who can't support his argument --
"Your facts don't count because the government might be lying to us."
Phred
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Redstorm
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: Phred]
#5628492 - 05/14/06 01:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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The government doesn't lie?
Taking an "accept all" stance is just as dangerous as the "deny all" stance when concerning releases of information by the government.
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: 1stimer]
#5628511 - 05/14/06 02:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Your arguement is based on a commonly known non-truth that the government never lies.
I have an eyewitness.
All you have is "Oh, Pshaw".
My guess is the real rate is 3 times what the government reports, which makes it 50% more than is typical for their age group.
My numbers are as good as anybody else's I've seen so far.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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beatnicknick
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: Phred]
#5628584 - 05/14/06 02:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said:
Quote:
it may seem like it is about the same as the civilain population but look at it in terms of the amount of people in each population then the suicide rate rockets up in the military.. People fail to see the proportions.
Incorrect. See this thread for actual numbers -- http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/2566522
You want to talk about comparing apples to apples, the most logical thing to do is compare the suicide rate of the civilian demographic which most closely matches the makeup of the military. The closest category for which it is easy to find figures is "male, 20 - 34 years old". The suicide rate for males 20 to 34 years old is double that of the military suicide rate.
Phred
They're all in the warzone. They've seen the mutilated bodies, they've been under fire, what makes you think the Iraqi people would commit suicide any less than the soldiers? War is not stressful, it is traumatizing and will permantly change these fresh out of highschool kids in the military.
-------------------- I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
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Phred
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5628618 - 05/14/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Your arguement is based on a commonly known non-truth that the government never lies.
I quote facts. You claim they are not facts, because the government is the source of them. That ends the debate on about 95 per cent of every topic discussed in this forum, since almost all of what is discussed here is based on information garnered from one government or another.
On the anecdotal story from an acquaintance -- describing to you his limited knowledge of a single incident -- you proceed to the outrageous assertion that the suicide rate in the US military is triple that which is reported. Maybe your acquaintance was lying to you. Maybe his understanding of the situation is faulty -- perhaps either the officer really didn't kill himself or perhaps once your buddy reported his knowledge that the guy did kill himself, an investigation was held and the death was later reclassified to a suicide. Sometimes paperwork moves slowly in the military.
But even if this particular death really was a suicide and really was never recorded as such, that is no basis for concluding the suicide rate in the military is triple that which is reported. Why just triple, Baby_H? Why not quintuple?
The problem with rejecting data which comes from the government as being just made up stuff is that of course that claim can be made for ALL data which comes from ANY government, which leaves you nowhere.
Phred
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Phred
Fred's son


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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: beatnicknick]
#5628625 - 05/14/06 02:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
They've seen the mutilated bodies, they've been under fire, what makes you think the Iraqi people would commit suicide any less than the soldiers?
I have no idea what you're going on about. Who said anything about Iraqis? Once again we have someone whose mind is so made up they can't be bothered to click the links I provide.
Phred
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: Phred]
#5628632 - 05/14/06 02:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Are you denying that the government lies?
I think it's obvious that the government lies more than it tells the truth. On what do you base your assertion that government information is reliable?
Maybe we are nowhere.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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Phred
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5628670 - 05/14/06 02:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Are you denying that the government lies?
Everyone lies. Governments lie, too.
What I'm saying is that to disregard statistics from compiled reports simply because they come from government is absurd. There's a difference between a president declaring "I never had sex with that woman" and an entire dpartment colluding to fudge statistics on the deaths of government employees -- particularly when the statistics we are talking about in this case don't reflect badly on the government in the first place.
Phred
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: 1stimer]
#5628726 - 05/14/06 03:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think their main motive in these cases may be that they don't want to tell the parents their son or daughter comitted suicide.
I'm saying that you shouldn't confuse statistics with facts.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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fresh313
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Re: Mentally ill troops forced into combat [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5628751 - 05/14/06 03:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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hi mr and mrs smith your son just couldnt cut it in the field and couldnt take the pressure so he put his standard issue 9mm field pistol to his temple and pulled the trigger. he was really pretty worthless to the war effort. live in guilt for the rest of your life now.
or
hi mr and mrs smith your son died valiantly in the middle east theatre of operation fighting for your country, his patriotism and death was not in vain. you have our greatest condolences. signed, captain johnson.
these are both versions of the same truth. just a question of which one is better.
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