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Offlineold
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Registered: 01/29/02
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Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
Cub Genetics -- Oss and Oeric
    #534675 - 01/29/02 05:27 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

This is a question for someone who has been around a while and knows a bit about cultivation history (pre - PF tek),....

Fifteen years ago I spent several months in a desert environment with a copy of Oss and Oeric (and some research lab experience) as my only guide into the world of cub cultivation: Spore print, agar, spawn, casing.... Six or more months of play, one mushroom (it was ugly, but potent).

At the time I understood Oss and Oeric to say that the Stropheria Cub. (as they called it) had eight karyotypes. To obtain a mycelial strain capable of fruiting, one had to plate the spores, then "mate" mycelia of separate colonies (innoculate them side by side), then select and re-plate the mycelium from the conjunction of two colonies which had hopefully exchanged genetic material. (or at least this is how I read Oss and Oeric, and I read carefully, having no other guide.) Contamination was not my problem, I knew how to do the bio-technique. The problem was fathoming cub. mushroom spore sex.... And mating spores.

This is the process that took me months -- playing with agar plates, selecting colonies, mating, re-plating. Until I finally got a robust plate to take to spawn -- hoping it was genetically "complete".

BUT now I read (the internet is amazing) that the cub is dikaryiotic. No mating of spore colonies needed. My spore sex preoccupaton was bullshit. Complete genetic package in every spore- dikaryotic. Could someone familiar with Oss and Oeric explain? Did I miss something? Or did they?

Well, after those many months -- now many years pasted-- I packed away the PC, the agar, the malt, the barley and oyster shell. They are in the garage still. And there they will remain. II just ordered myself a mycobag. Hell, I earned it! Shake and bake. After fifteen years, one more try.

I look forward to hearing an answer. This is a facinating forum -- after my prior solo investigations, it is fun seeing people exchange so much information. Thanks to all.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Registered: 01/19/99
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Re: Cub Genetics -- Oss and Oeric [Re: old]
    #535114 - 01/29/02 06:05 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Howdy old guy. Hope I can clear things up for you as I understand them. First of all, I've never studied Oss and Oeric, but am familiar with other classics such as TMC, GG&MM and others. Cubes are dikaryotic. Cube spores are monokaryons.

Spores do indeed to mate, but very rarely do we need to do anything to help them. Spores only have one set of chromosomes. When placed in water and/or nutrients they germinate and start reproducing via mitosis and grow into small threads.

These threads "mate" with compatible threads, forming clamp connections. They aren't very picky. I think there are basically two types of spores, they can't mate with the same type. After clamping and exchanging genetic material, the new joined thread starts reproducing again via mitosis. This thread now contains a full set of chromosomes and is now called a strain, an isolated strain, a pure strain or some similar name. Not all of these pure strains are capable of fruiting, and not all of them are great strains, but most are good enough and nearly all can at least fruit.

Innoculating with anything other than the absolute smallest microscopic amount of spores will allow plenty of mating to occur. In fact, when using a concentrated spore solution (spore syringe) many different strains form in the substrate, and the best seem to take over the substrate to fruit.

Beginning with strain selection is a very complicated way to learn growing. Nature will take care of all of that if you let her. Once you are familiar with growing, strain selection is much easier. You can simply take a tissue sample of your favorite fruits, and you will then not have to worry with all the mating as the tissue sample will of course by dikayiotic.

Hope that helps.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Offlineold
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Registered: 01/29/02
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Re: Cub Genetics -- Oss and Oeric [Re: mycofile]
    #536088 - 01/30/02 05:39 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks much. That is essentially how I understood it. And yes, I KNOW better than most that working from spore strains is difficult.... How I would have liked a tiny piece of living mycelial tissue back then....

I believe there are actually eight karyotypes in spore, not two -- per Oss and Oeric. Only the right genetic combo will fruit. From experience, even a monokaryotic mycelia (grown from a single spore) will grow and produce spawn, but will not fruit. The mycelia will also be active (blue, contain some "psychoactive property" by my empiric testing. Incomplete dikaryotic mixes (two spores mixed, but not proper genetic mix to fruit) will occasionally fruit out these weird deformed fungus balls with some gill properties -- a truly mutant looking thing. Completely psychoactive.

You know, I was tempted to just incocculate a spawn jar with spore back then and see what happened. But didn't. Went by the book. Alas.


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Offlinefresh357
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Registered: 09/02/01
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Re: Cub Genetics -- Oss and Oeric [Re: old]
    #536100 - 01/30/02 05:56 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

wow, old, talk about frustration. But listen, you have to assume that the organism must be able to reproduce somewhat easily in order to survive. If is was so hard for you to mate them in a lab, how hard would it be for the mushrooms in the wild?
anyways, happy growing, and im sure youll be getting huge flushes since you are so used to sterility procedures. Prepare to have loads of shrooms.


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Anonymous

Re: Cub Genetics -- Oss and Oeric [Re: old]
    #536317 - 01/30/02 10:10 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that Oss/Oeric book actually written by Paul Stamets?


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Invisiblemycofile
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Re: Cub Genetics -- Oss and Oeric [Re: ]
    #536366 - 01/30/02 11:10 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Max, as you know, I'd love to correct you :wink:
I don't think Stamets had anything to do with it.  Unless I'm mistaken it was Terrence and Dennis McKenna who wrote it under their nomme de plumes.

BTW, I like the "correct me if I'm wrong" part.  Wonder if we could get that entered in above everypost :wink:


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


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Anonymous

Re: Cub Genetics -- Oss and Oeric [Re: mycofile]
    #536378 - 01/30/02 11:27 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I knew it was somebodies psuedenym but I wasn't 100% sure whose.

I like your 'unless I'm mistaken..' part as well!


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OfflinepsilocyberV
old hand

Registered: 06/09/99
Posts: 1,814
Last seen: 6 days, 11 hours
Re: Cub Genetics -- Oss and Oeric [Re: mycofile]
    #536660 - 01/31/02 08:41 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Post deleted by administrator.


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Invisiblemycofile
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Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2,336
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Re: Cub Genetics -- Oss and Oeric [Re: psilocyber]
    #536809 - 01/31/02 12:55 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Speaking of Mkenna, or Oss or whatever. check this MP3 out. It's phenomenal.
http://mckenna.transgress.org/1-ArchaicRevival.mp3


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblemycofile
Pooh-Bah
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/19/99
Posts: 2,336
Loc: Uranus
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Cub Genetics -- Oss and Oeric [Re: old]
    #536816 - 01/31/02 12:59 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I do think it would be difficult to innoculate anything with too few spores to even get a dikaryotic strain. I mean actually only getting one, two, hell even eight spores onto agar is pretty dificult. Anything you can see is thousands of spores. Perhaps it was the strain/print you were using?

Any way, let us know how it goes and if we can help.


--------------------
"From a certain point of view"
-Jedi Master Obi Wan Kenobi

PM me with any cultivation questions.

I just looked at my profile and realized I had a website at one point in time on geocities, it's not there anymore and I have no idea what I had on it. Anybody remember my website from several years aga? PM if so please.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
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