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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Ted Kaczynski's manifesto.
    #3966108 - 03/24/05 08:26 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.thecourier.com/manifest.htm


This is the part I agree with the most.

I think instead of focusing on destroying industrial society as the main goal, it would be better for people to embrace technology and science, but not then hand over the power of their knowledge to huge monolithinc corporations.

These days most people going into technology do so with the main goal of getting a good job with some huge company and make lots of money. Most of them could do just as well on their own with the knowledge they posess if they would just use their imagination.

I think it would be best to focus on developing what he calls "small technology", and a strong science and technology anti-corporate counterculture.



TWO KINDS OF TECHNOLOGY
207. An argument likely to be raised against our proposed revolution is that it is bound to fail, because (it is claimed) throughout history technology has always progressed, never regressed, hence technological regression is impossible. But this claim is false.

208. We distinguish between two kinds of technology, which we will call small-scale technology and organization-dependent technology. Small-scale technology is technology that can be used by small-scale communities without outside assistance. Organization-dependent technology is technology that depends on large-scale social organization. We are aware of no significant cases of regression in small-scale technology. But organization-dependent technology DOES regress when the social organization on which it depends breaks down. Example: When the Roman Empire fell apart the Romans' small-scale technology survived because any clever village craftsman could build, for instance, a water wheel, any skilled smith could make steel by Roman methods, and so forth. But the Romans' organization-dependent technology DID regress. Their aqueducts fell into disrepair and were never rebuilt. Their techniques of road construction were lost. The Roman system of urban sanitation was forgotten, so that until rather recent times did the sanitation of European cities that of Ancient Rome.

209. The reason why technology has seemed always to progress is that, until perhaps a century or two before the Industrial Revolution, most technology was small-scale technology. But most of the technology developed since the Industrial Revolution is organization-dependent technology. Take the refrigerator for example. Without factory-made parts or the facilities of a post-industrial machine shop it would be virtually impossible for a handful of local craftsmen to build a refrigerator. If by some miracle they did succeed in building one it would be useless to them without a reliable source of electric power. So they would have to dam a stream and build a generator. Generators require large amounts of copper wire. Imagine trying to make that wire without modern machinery. And where would they get a gas suitable for refrigeration? It would be much easier to build an icehouse or preserve food by drying or picking, as was done before the invention of the refrigerator.

210. So it is clear that if the industrial system were once thoroughly broken down, refrigeration technology would quickly be lost. The same is true of other organization-dependent technology. And once this technology had been lost for a generation or so it would take centuries to rebuild it, just as it took centuries to build it the first time around. Surviving technical books would be few and scattered. An industrial society, if built from scratch without outside help, can only be built in a series of stages: You need tools to make tools to make tools to make tools ... . A long process of economic development and progress in social organization is required. And, even in the absence of an ideology opposed to technology, there is no reason to believe that anyone would be interested in rebuilding industrial society. The enthusiasm for "progress" is a phenomenon particular to the modern form of society, and it seems not to have existed prior to the 17th century or thereabouts.

211. In the late Middle Ages there were four main civilizations that were about equally "advanced": Europe, the Islamic world, India, and the Far East (China, Japan, Korea). Three of those civilizations remained more or less stable, and only Europe became dynamic. No one knows why Europe became dynamic at that time; historians have their theories but these are only speculation. At any rate, it is clear that rapid development toward a technological form of society occurs only under special conditions. So there is no reason to assume that long-lasting technological regression cannot be brought about.

212. Would society EVENTUALLY develop again toward an industrial-technological form? Maybe, but there is no use in worrying about it, since we can't predict or control events 500 or 1,000 years in the future. Those problems must be dealt with by the people who will live at that time.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3966215 - 03/24/05 09:05 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:

This is the part I agree with the most.





the most ehh?  :thumbup: i like the implication


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: BleaK]
    #3966318 - 03/24/05 09:39 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Mainly, the part I disagree with is that it's a stupid plan. You will never be able to eliminate technology.

You might eliminate it almost everywhere, but somebody somewhere will still have it, and they would just take over and install their own technocratic regeme.

The problem with technology is that it has for the last 200 years been almost exclusively designed and implemented with huge power structures as the prime beneficiaries. This is due to the fact that the powerful elite own almost all the scientists.


Scientists need to learn to stop acting like farm animals, or more likely, people who don't act like farm animals need to learn and implement massive amounts of science and technology.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3966499 - 03/24/05 10:29 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

what's even more stupid are the people that he targeted to
bring about this revolution.

he had interesting ideas...some I'm sure we could all find a
common thread with, but he needlessly killed a lot of folks
in a weak attempt to reach his ends.


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OfflineQuantumMeltdown
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3966521 - 03/24/05 10:36 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Never got a chance to read the manifesto untill now so thanks for the link. Makes some interesting points but still that guy is a whacko! So from what I have heard that was the document he sent to the media that his own brother recognized the wording and turned him in is that right?


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-QuantumMeltdown

Total abstinence is so excellent a thing that it cannot be carried to too great an extent. In my passion for it I even carry it so far as to totally abstain from total abstinence itself.
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"The time has come the walrus said, little oysters  hide their heads, my Twain of thought is loosely bound I guess its time to Mark this down, Be good and you will be lonesome
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That's what livin' is to me
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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: afoaf]
    #3966812 - 03/24/05 11:36 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Did some of them actually die?

I read a little about him while I was searching for the manifesto, but all the bombings I read about just resulted in injury.


How many people did he kill?


Edit: He killed 3 people:


http://www.unabombertrial.com/timeline/index.html

Dec. 11, 1985
Sacramento, Calif.
RenTech owner Hugh C. Scrutton stops on his way to lunch to remove what looks to be a road hazard in the parking lot behind his Howe Avenue computer rental store. The object, actually a bomb filled with nail fragments, explodes. It rips Scrutton's chest open and penetrates his heart with shrapnel.
One dead.

Dec. 10, 1994
North Caldwell, N.J.
New York City advertising executive Thomas Mosser prepares to go Christmas tree shopping with his wife and daughters. In the kitchen of his home, he opens a package roughly the size and shape of two videocassettes, setting off a fatal explosion. Mosser's family is home but unharmed. Months later the Unabomber would take responsibility for the package, mailed from San Francisco, claiming that Mosser was targeted for his public relations firm's work for Exxon Corp., the company whose tanker spilled oil in Alaska's Prince William Sound.
One dead.


April 24, 1995
Sacramento, Calif.
A package mailed to the California Forestry Association, too difficult for the office receptionist to open, is handed over to Gilbert B. Murray, the timber lobbying group's president. The parcel explodes when opened, killling Murray with a force so great it pushes nails from the walls of other offices in the same building. The package is addressed to Murray's predecessor, William Dennison, and bears the return address of Closet Dimensions, a custom furniture company in Oakland, Calif.
One dead.



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Edited by Baby_Hitler (03/24/05 11:55 PM)


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: afoaf]
    #3968580 - 03/25/05 02:09 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Oh, it says so right in the manifesto:

Take us (FC) for example. If we had never done anything violent and had submitted the present writings to a publisher, they probably would not have been accepted. If they had been accepted and published, they probably would not have attracted many readers, because it's more fun to watch the entertainment put out by the media than to read a sober essay. Even if these writings had had many readers, most of these readers would soon have forgotten what they had read as their minds were flooded by the mass of material to which the media expose them. In order to get our message before the public with some chance of making a lasting impression, we've had to kill people.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3968781 - 03/25/05 03:01 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Why do these fucking whackos think that if they kill people we'll read their drivel. Everybody has their own theory of the universe, which they are entitled to. I, however, am under no obligation to listen to or read their stupid, boring bullshit. And I refuse to read this asshole's crap on principal. It's like paying ransom to terrorists. Fuck him. I wouldn't give the cunt the satisfaction. And neither should you.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3969197 - 03/25/05 04:41 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Undermine society!


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3969226 - 03/25/05 04:53 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

There is no such thing as society


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3969647 - 03/25/05 07:01 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

There's also no such thing as "thing" or "there"., or "such" or "as".


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3970154 - 03/25/05 10:03 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

But there are "things" and no one talks about "there" or "such" or "as" as if they were something to be studied and spoken about. "The state of "such" today is so degraded." "Theres just aren't what they used to be." "How can we improve today's as?"
Society exists only as an intellectual construct that we use to discuss the action of large groups of real individuals. It is not a real thing any more than the word "thus" is. Not like a person or a car or a fish.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #3970432 - 03/25/05 11:12 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

There is no such thing as fish because fish are made of atoms.


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OfflineBleaK
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #3970870 - 03/26/05 01:03 AM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Baby_Hitler said:
There is no such thing as fish because fish are made of atoms.




yes, i think Ted Kaczynski is interesting too.


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Offlinedaba
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: BleaK]
    #5110342 - 12/27/05 08:28 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

I've recently transcribed, for lack of a better word, his manifesto into a printable and easy-to-read PDF file. You can download it here.

I also recommend reading his biography on Wikipedia.

Also, please PM me if you find any glaring problems on the PDF. Thanks!


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: daba]
    #5110362 - 12/27/05 08:38 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

i think there was much more to the OC bombing than meets the eye.  it was about more than a crazy guy mad at the world... i smell government conspiracy  :blush:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #5110369 - 12/27/05 08:40 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Edit: He killed 3 people

He attempted to bring down an airliner full of people, he maimed and dismembered several more, and he hurt the surviving family members and friends of those he killed. I doubt you would be so sympathetic if your sister's face had been half blown off leaving her horribly disfigured for the rest of her life by his indiscriminate violence.

Get real. This guy was is an arrogant monster. That his ideas, which are not even novel, have been read the world over and have still come to nothing tells me that the natural selection of ideas in the free exchange of the Internet ranks them near the bottom.  :thumbdown:


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Ted Kaczynski's manifesto. [Re: Diploid]
    #5110527 - 12/27/05 10:19 AM (11 years, 8 months ago)

Who said anything about being sympathetic? He was a crazy asshole.

But even a broken clock is right twice a day.


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