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Grandfathering drug laws?
    #3367508 -

ok im specifically talking about canadian laws.  im curious if people can grandfather drug laws.  in the house im at it is not zoned to have sweets.  but it has had sweets in it since before they made the laws against it.  so legally because of that this house is still allowed to have sweets without permits (grandfather).

im wondering about drugs.  say i have a ton of peyote growing.  then next week they make that palnt illegal here.  am i then still allowed to grow this plant because i have been growing it since before the laws?  a link to something official would be excellent.  i get so lost on the government website...i have no patience for it.

thanks :smile:

though i was in politics/law forum..oops.  oh well its all about terrorism and us shit there...maybe there are answers here?  move if need be :0  sorry.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

Edited by kadakuda (11/16/04 02:36 AM)

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Re: Grandfathering drug laws? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3368846 -

My guess is you would have to get rid of the plant. I mean, with that logic, anyone could say they were growing the peyote before the law was made. But I'm not sure so you can't take my word for it.


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The story of life is quicker then the blink of an eye, the story of love is hello, goodbye.            - Hendrix :bow:

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Re: Grandfathering drug laws? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3368937 -

Hey i don't know anything about the canadian juridic system but here in Portugal it would depend fully on the text of the law.
As both systems are equally ruled by the 'rule of law' and western juridic systems are all somewhat similar in these matters, i'd bet that issue is resolved the same way.

If that hypothetical law would clearly and explicitly state that its effects reach into the past ('retroactivity' in our juridic system) than you would have to get rid of your illegal plants.

If it didn't state anything about it's application in time, than you would be allowed to have those peyo's as long as you could prove you had them before they were outlawed.

EDIT:
Now that i think of it, i don't think it would be as clear as that if the law didn't say that its effects reach into the past.

It would all come down to interpretation. Basically if the judge would consider this a matter of time effectiveness or not. It'd prolly be a case of long discussion and probably many appeals.

But i bet if they were to outlaw peyote there, the law would explicitly state that people who have these plants would have to get rid of them. They'd do it precisely to avoid the doubt that would cause these long discussions and ridiculous number of appeals.

Edited by esin (11/16/04 01:25 PM)

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Re: Grandfathering drug laws? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3373431 -

I know when Cannabis was criminalized in the USA, there was a whole lot of effort to destroy existing plants.


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Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve

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Re: Grandfathering drug laws? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3373437 -

Also, when Shulgen's creations become illegal he has to (with a heavy heart) dispose of his supply of them.


--------------------


Got a question about a substance?  Erowid might already have your answer! Have questions about the  mushroom experience? The  Tripper's FAQ may have your answer or someone else might have had your question before.
         
I know up on the top you are seeing great sights, but down at the bottom we, too, should have rights.
  - Theodor Seuss Geisel Dr. Suess

"I didn't come here to be easily understood" - Steve

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Re: Grandfathering drug laws? [Re: gdman]
    #3375840 -

that had a lot to do with DuPont as well....peyote being legal or illegal wont interfere with any big buisness situation. i strongly believe that it was almost solely because dupont that hemp is illegal, thc is just a good justification.

still cant find any answers at the gov's website...i have a feeling its a shit outa luck thing unless its a part of your religion.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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Re: Grandfathering drug laws? [Re: kadakuda]
    #3379486 -

what are religion freedoms like up in canada? here you have to have blood line from the peyote first nations people to consume peyote.


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hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.

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Re: Grandfathering drug laws? [Re: JCoke]
    #3379947 -

there really is no talk of the peyote religion up...i dont knwo how it would be up here.  as to the judges and police i have met i would say that if it is a really legitimate part of your religion they wont do a thing.  we do have some freedom here, crossing that line would make for lotsa new headlines i would think.  unfortunatly i dont use these to get in touch with a supreme being so it wont work for this guy :frown:

them making it illegal wouldnt stop anything.  no one growing some cacti for 20 years is jsut gonna throw em away.  i dont see them ever being illegal though.  anyway could be for poppies, salvia, wormwood whatever.  any plant.  just trying to find out if legally youd have a chance of doign this.  id talk to a lawyer if it werent so much $.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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Re: Grandfathering drug laws? [Re: JCoke]
    #3380824 -

JCoke said:
what are religion freedoms like up in canada? here you have to have blood line from the peyote first nations people to consume peyote.


Are you in the USA? You don't have to be an Indian to use Peyote religiously, just a member of the Native American Church. Check it out:

Newsbrief: Utah Supreme Court Upholds Religious Peyote Use by Non-Indians 6/25/04

In a ruling Tuesday, the Utah Supreme Court unanimously held that members of the Native American Church can legally use peyote as part of their religion regardless of their race. Federal legislation dating from 1970 exempts Native American religious use of the hallucinogenic cactus from the Controlled Substances Act, which otherwise prohibits it. A Utah state law prohibiting peyote use incorporates the federal exemption. In its ruling Tuesday, the state's highest court held that the state law did not limit the religious exemption to members of federally registered tribes.

The ruling came in the case of James "Flaming Eagle" Mooney, founder of the Oklevueha Earthwalks Native American Church, and his wife, Linda Mooney. The pair faced life in prison after being charged with more than a dozen felony drug distribution counts when Utah police seized more than 12,000 peyote buttons in an October 2000 raid. The criminal case never went to trial because the Mooneys immediately moved to have it thrown out, arguing that their peyote distribution and use occurred within the context of protected Native American Church ritual. The district court judge rejected that motion, the Mooneys appealed, and now the state Supreme Court has ruled.

Mooney claims to be one-quarter Seminole, but that claim has never been documented. He is not a member of a federally registered tribe, but he is a member of the Native American Church.

During oral arguments in the case last November, church attorney Kathryn Collard told the court peyote use was central to Indian spirituality. "The worship of peyote as a deity and sacrament is fundamental to the Native American religion," Collard said.

Assistant Utah Attorney General Kris Leonard countered with the "Pandora's box" argument, raising the specter of an epidemic of peyote abuse if the exemption were applied to non-Indians. "I have a job to do, and from the state's point of view, you can't open that box even a little," she said.

But the Utah Supreme Court found that state law was clear. "Because the text of the exemption is devoid of any reference to tribal status, we find no support for an interpretation limiting the exemption to tribal members," wrote Justice Jill N. Parrish for the court. "Therefore, so long as their church is part of 'the Native American Church,' the Mooneys may not be prosecuted for using peyote in bona fide religious ceremonies."

"In every era people have had to fight for the right to practice their religious beliefs freely, particularly if their beliefs were not that of the predominant culture," said Collard after the decision was rendered. "The great thing is that we can do that. We have a Constitution that protects our rights to practice our religion freely."

But she warned the ruling was not a green light for every thrill-seeking white peyote eater to claim a religious exemption. "It isn't like if you and I wanted to go do some peyote we could form a church and go do some," she said. "I don't think just calling yourself a Native American Church would do it. There is a body of teaching and religious beliefs people recognize as being central to the Native American Church."

You can read there ruling at: utcourts.gov/opinions/supopin/mooney062204.htm


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Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see.

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Re: Grandfathering drug laws? [Re: Lifenergy]
    #3381012 -

thanks lifenergy, i'm in usa yea and that's good to clear that up.

mescaline is one of the few things i have yet to do, thought about going to canada or netherlands to try it, maybe now I wont have to go so far after all.  :grin:


--------------------
hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.

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Re: Grandfathering drug laws? [Re: JCoke]
    #3382854 -

be easier to go to canada than join the religion. but you can get it jsut as easy in teh states. its not legal to consume in canada. jsut to have teh plant. once extraction/ingestion takes place its illegal.


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The seeds you won't sow are the plants you dont grow.

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