BeefExtreme said:

see also rules 10, and 11 of the satantic rules of the earth:

10: Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

interpret to suit

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tree frog said:

Churpee Choozle said:

I do not agree with the notion of 'invasive species' however, or it shoild fully include ourselves. If it doesn't, us killing animals because they cause trouble is just dumb speciesism. We fuck up ecosystems, we dump whatever, wherever. We pollute, poison, rape and destroy. We should shoot us. Instead, we fuck up our environment and say: there, behind the fence, that reserve, that's nature. We kill everything that doesn't belong there. Because we know a higher truth than everyone else so we get to judge over life and death.

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Yeah, this was my point about white settlers.  It wasn't guilt but more like, if killing invasive species is right because of how they hurt ecosystems, then it follows that every white person in Florida should be on the invasive species list.

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hidingbush said:

I understand why folks get upset about talking about animals. There is an irony that lots of people talk poorly about humans and their right to live. I think how we treat and talk about animals should be downstream from how we treat and talk about each other.

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tree frog said:

I feel like you're taking me out of context.

It's a moral argument not a suggestion.  And it was framed that way because the context was five white folks having dinner, two of them vegans, while talking about killing animals.

The vegans seemed to find it quite justified as the snakes are invasive.  Well...  Then so are all five of us

I could have said all non-natives.  But the context was white folks having dinner.  And there's a lot of non-natives whose ancestors came here against their own will.  So, I used white folks to make my argument to keep it short.

But it was a moral argument, not a suggestion.

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tree frog said:

My argument is to think twice before murdering anyone.

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Breadly710 said:

I love reptiles, but the whole situation in FL is fucked. I hate to see them killed and would rather see a better solution, but I think killing them is the only option. Some of these released pets are making it hard for the American Crocodile to rebound, and killing off other species. It is 100% humans fault that this has happened, but there are some species that will be out competed.

There are some people out there doing rescues for Tegus and other species, but they are breeding too fast. I hate it because it is going to fuck up the reptile industry for everyone because some people suck. If you get an animal, make sure you have the space and time to keep it!

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tree frog said:

Most humans in Florida are doing more damage to the ecosystem than the snakes.  In fact, we introduced the snakes so are the upstream cause of that destruction too.

My argument is to think twice before murdering anyone.  It's meant to give pause about placing ourselves in a hierarchy over animals.

Anyway, my friend that brought it up said she was also not comfortable with it.  And had told her partner after meeting the snake hunter that she wished they would neuter and release like we do with feral cats.  That detail got lost in the excitement of dinner and would have been a conversation I would have enjoyed more.  Plus she was probably processing her own disgust and may have been a bit disassociated herself as these things are normalized and bother us both.

And I'm editing this thing out I said about the jewelry, because I don't want to keep arguing or trigger anyone with what was here.

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Hey, while I may not see eye to eye with you about the whole humans vs animals hierarchy, I feel like the catch/neuter/release is a great alternative to taking life, if it can be prevented. Especially considering, as you said, that it was humans who created the problem in the first place. We can also bear the extra cost and work involved to solve the problem without killing our little slithery friends.

I overlooked alternative solutions that were less shitty, thanks for checking me on that, sister. I love animals, they certainly aren't to blame for doing what they do.

Cheers

Edit: I just saw your reply about the not wanting to get into a debate. Sorry about all that, not trying to come at you buddy c:

peace, peace!

Glad you're better now, and I apologize for focusing on the minutiae instead of the main gist. I get caught up on the wrong thing sometimes and get too passionate about silly shit. I'll see myself out of this thread for a lil while. See you around

B Traven said:

If apex predators were allowed to repopulate the peninsula, they'd make quick work of pythons and iguanas. Might not eliminate them outright, but would certainly knock them down to reasonable population numbers.

The biggest problem in Florida is cars and developments. And not even that- just the absolute SUPREMACY of cars and developments. God-given right to drive fast and live in a shitty McMansion. Question any of it, and you run smack into that good ole deep southern attitude of "don't rock the boat unless you want to end up ostracized or worse."

Most conservation efforts are focused on the preservation of "hook and bullet" species, i.e., trophy hunting and fishing. This is why "invasive species derbies" check all the boxes. People get to go kill stuff and weigh it and pretend like they're doing the environment a favor. Then do 85 on I-75 in their monster truck on the way home.

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Churpee Choozle said:

Most people shouldn't be fiddling with exotic pets. They don't have the know-how, or the stamina to sit out the thing they themselves started. And most animals just have no place in a regular home. That something doesn't die, doesn't mean it's living the life it should.

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