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Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states * 2
    #25962649 -

https://therooster.com/blog/scientists-want-to-give-psychedelics-to-people-in-vegetative-states


Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states
Researchers say LSD, psilocybin might wake up unconscious people
CULTUREAPRIL 29, 2019 BY REILLY CAPPS
A year ago, a son wrote on the Internet that his dad was in a coma, on life support. The dad was a Navy vet, a horse lover, and the son wanted him conscious one more time. To look him in the eye. To say goodbye.

In his grief, his pain, the son wondered: "Would me giving him LSD do anything positive?" he asked on Reddit.

Crazy idea, came the responses. Don't do it.

But a new scientific paper suggests it's not such a wild idea after all.

"Psychedelics as a treatment for disorders of consciousness," was published in the journal Neuroscience of Consciousness, and written by researchers from Imperial College London, one of the world's top universities, which just opened the world's first center dedicated to psychedelic research.

The paper proposes giving psilocybin — magic mushrooms — to people who are in vegetative states. A trip could wake them up.

Psychedelics are famously said to "expand consciousness." And, when mapped by fMRI, they do, in fact, light up the brain. In scientific language, psychedelics "increase complexity," which is one measure of consciousness.



[A drawing shows how the brain on psilocybin (magic mushrooms), shown at right, is more complex than a normal brain, shown at left. From the Journal of the Royal Society Interface. Cover photo from Shutterstock]
By increasing brain complexity, "psilocybin could elevate conscious awareness in patients" in a vegetative state, the researchers write.

People fall into vegetative states after brain injuries. They're more aware than comatose or brain dead people. They can open their eyes — but the lights aren't on, so to speak.

They're heartbreaking cases. Patients languish in hospitals. Docs try everything: drugs, electric shocks, surgery — few treatments seem to help. Families often pull the plug.

The idea of using LSD as a treatment has floated around the Internet for decades. There are rumors — totally unconfirmed — that an astronomical dose of LSD — "a quarter of a vial," or 25 hits  — woke up an unresponsive dude and, after a few days, he was able to speak. It's entirely possible those stories are true.

brain scan of brain on LSD

[Previous research by Robin Carhart-Harris and othersshowed that, in a scan, LSD lights up the brain. From PNAS.]
Psychedelics were taboo in the West for 40 years. But, today, psychedelics are trendy again, and treating everything from depression to anorexia to headaches. (Denver is having the world's first psychedelic vote right now.) One author of this paper, Robin Carhart-Harris, has done a TED talk and been featured in the biggest publications in Britain. These researchers are now brave enough to try this experiment in public, and publish the results.

Of course, the big question is: would it be ok to give psilocybin to a person who can't consent? These folks can't nod their heads yes, let alone sign a waiver. What if they become conscious, but wake up to a "bad trip"? A "bad trip" is already pretty bad — now imagine a bad trip in a hospital bed in a body you can't move.

On the other hand: "bad trips" usually cause no lasting damage, and psilocybin is physically safe. And how much worse can life get for these people? 

The researchers suggest starting slow, either by testing on animals or using microdoses.

In the case of the son who wanted to give LSD to his dad, the dad died before the son had a chance, he wrote. (Because the dad was brain dead, LSD probably wouldn't work anyway, these researchers suggest.) But for thousands of others, psychedelics could offer hope to hopeless cases.

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: sycodelix]
    #25962689 -

I wonder if the son ever slipped his dad some LSD, I think I might if I was in a similar situation...

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: Frank Rizzo]
    #25962718 -

It says at this article his dad died before he could

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: tacodude]
    #25962852 -

Didn't finish the article, thanks for the heads up as I see it wouldn't have mattered anyways since he was brain dead which sucks but I hope this ends up working for others.

Edited by Frank Rizzo (04/29/19 03:14 PM)

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: Frank Rizzo]
    #25962938 -

This is a very interesting idea. Mushrooms are a great start but I'd love to see tests with Ayahuasca both with and without the DMT. Seems like even the MAOI's have some amazing neurorestoritive potential that could benefit comatose people in some cases.


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Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: musiclover420]
    #25963128 -

whatttt, awesome idea.

I've been curious about stroke patients/alzeihmers as well


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:raver2:How To Trip:jellyfish:Ultimate Tek Compendium:jellyfish:Cacti Tek List:raver2:

:mushroom2:Organize to Legalize Psilocybin:mushroom2:

Applying Jungian ideas to the psychedelic experience

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #25963300 -

Very interesting idea. Ironically as I was reading this, I was thinking "I don't know if this would be a good idea, because it may cause them to wake up.". I kept reading and realized that was the intention, so it sounds like a very good idea, especially if they suspect the person may never wake up.

Psilocybin and LSD are likely to keep you from being able to sleep during the experience, due to the increase in brain activity.

Just be sure to tell the woken up person they are tripping and in a safe place and the mind-bending effects are harmless and temporary and will wear off soon. That would be incredible to hear a news story how a vegetative person was brought out of a terminal coma from an illegal substance "with no medical value". I suppose it would be a good idea to make a living-will type thing that says if you go into a coma/vegetative-state that you authorize the use of psychedelics as an attempt to wake you from it and are aware of the potential risks.

I suspect that some psychedelics may not be as useful as others, such as Salvia Divinorum, DMT/Ayahuasca, Fly Agaric mushrooms and some others, which can make you close your eyes or take a nap. I don't know if any of those would cause you to be likely to wake up after the nap/closed-eyes portion.

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: guest1]
    #25963738 -

i've read stories about people in comas being awoken when ambien is administered to them.

that being said... it's a massive dick move to give someone psychedelics against their own wishes... especially when they can't even say yes or no...
absolutely appalling. but maybe this is how progress will be made.. but still, i guess it should be up to the power of attorney at the very least..


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Edited by Oggy (04/30/19 02:40 AM)

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: Oggy]
    #25963793 -

Oggy said:
i've read stories about people in comas being awoken when ambien is administered to them.

that being said... it's a massive dick move to give someone psychedelics against their own wishes... especially when they can't even say yes or no...
absolutely appalling. but maybe this is how progress will be made.. but still, i guess it should be up to the power of attorney at the very least..




yea, it's a touchy subject for sure.  reading this article, even i'm conflicted about the morality of it.

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: Tulipslave]
    #25963802 -

it could be brain training for them
it could even some what rectify areas that have been destroyed with degeneration

it's a smart move


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http://bunkpolice.com/basic-test-kit/
Vienna Declaration
Salvia Divinorum The Docudrahma

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: Oggy]
    #25964058 -

Oggy said:
i've read stories about people in comas being awoken when ambien is administered to them.

that being said... it's a massive dick move to give someone psychedelics against their own wishes... especially when they can't even say yes or no...
absolutely appalling. but maybe this is how progress will be made.. but still, i guess it should be up to the power of attorney at the very least..



I get your point but to go as far as labeling it a dick move seems a bit extreme but I guess to each their own perhaps if the person was vehemently against psychedelics while they were awake I would see it as a dick move. I believe letting someone live in a coma years on end till they die is a dick move as thats no life at all unless they requested that before hand but again to each their own.

I personally would like them to wake me up anyway they can and if I can't live without the assistance of machines to keep me alive for all tense and purposes I'm dead time to pull the plug...

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: Frank Rizzo]
    #25964061 -

Frank Rizzo said:
Oggy said:
i've read stories about people in comas being awoken when ambien is administered to them.

that being said... it's a massive dick move to give someone psychedelics against their own wishes... especially when they can't even say yes or no...
absolutely appalling. but maybe this is how progress will be made.. but still, i guess it should be up to the power of attorney at the very least..



I get your point but to go as far as labeling it a dick move seems a bit extreme but I guess to each their own perhaps if the person was vehemently against psychedelics while they were awake I would see it as a dick move. I believe letting someone live in a coma years on end till they die is a dick move as thats no life at all unless they requested that before hand but again to each their own.

I personally would like them to wake me up anyway they can and if I can't live without the assistance of machines to keep me alive for all tense and purposes I'm dead time to pull the plug...


The phrase “to all intents, constructions, and purposes” dates from sixteenth-century English law. Later, the shortened “for (or to) all intents and purposes” became more popular than the original phrase. It means “in every practical sense” or “virtually.”


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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #25964068 -

tyrannicalrex said:
The phrase “to all intents, constructions, and purposes” dates from sixteenth-century English law. Later, the shortened “for (or to) all intents and purposes” became more popular than the original phrase. It means “in every practical sense” or “virtually.”


You got my point and thanks for the correction as I will keep that in mind next time it pops into my head :hatsoff:...

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: Frank Rizzo] * 1
    #25964088 -

Just looking out for you man!


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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: Oggy]
    #25964675 -

Oggy said:
i've read stories about people in comas being awoken when ambien is administered to them.

that being said... it's a massive dick move to give someone psychedelics against their own wishes... especially when they can't even say yes or no...
absolutely appalling. but maybe this is how progress will be made.. but still, i guess it should be up to the power of attorney at the very least..


Well then I guess you don't think Ketamine should never be used.

FYI its used mostly on young people and the elderly without their permission.

https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ketamine/ketamine.shtml

Quote:
CHEMICAL NAME
2-(2-chlorophenyl)-2-(methylamino)-cyclohexanone
DESCRIPTION
Ketamine is a dissociative psychedelic used medically as a veterinary and human anaesthetic. It is one of the few addictive psychedelics and is associated with researcher John Lilly.


FYI Katamine is still used in many situations.

Quote:
Recent clinical applications of ketamine with moderate scientific evidence and based on a renewed interest in low dose ketamine regimes
Procedural sedation for adults and children: The literature is strongly supportive of the safety and efficacy of ketamine for emergency department (ED) dissociative sedation for a variety of brief painful or emotionally disturbing procedures in both children and adults e.g.: Laceration repair, fracture reduction, abscess drainage, emergency cardioversion, amputation, chest tube insertion. It is useful for procedures in the mentally disabled who are often uncooperative.[43] This dissociative sedation can be readily achieved by administration of a single IV or IM loading dose of ketamine followed by titration.[43] Intranasal ketamine is being used in a wide range of clinical doses for procedural sedation in children (0.5-9 mg/kg).[44,45] It is used for sedation or general anesthesia for pediatric procedures like cardiac catheterization, radiation therapy, radiological studies such as magnetic resonance imaging, dressing changes, and dental work.[1,3,46] Ketamine in low doses in combination with low doses of propofol provides effective and safe sedo-analgesia in pediatric emergency short surgical procedures and in adults undergoing colonoscopy and short gynecological procedures[47,48,49]


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4258981/

Yup its even used on the mentally ill. Nice doctors eh.

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: rider420]
    #25964825 -

all these coma folks need is a good strong cup of coffee, wakes me right up :shrug:

They're not consenting to anything else thats happening, not consenting to being put on life support. Their life is pretty much over, consent is gone


--------------------
:raver2:How To Trip:jellyfish:Ultimate Tek Compendium:jellyfish:Cacti Tek List:raver2:

:mushroom2:Organize to Legalize Psilocybin:mushroom2:

Applying Jungian ideas to the psychedelic experience

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: sycodelix]
    #25965179 -

Question:  if you had a living will for just this circumstance,  which psychedelic would you prefer or allow?

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: sycodelix]
    #25965284 -

I mean if you're asking me its mushrooms 100%. Keep a running tab and see how many times they can save my life in one lifetime :lol:


--------------------
:raver2:How To Trip:jellyfish:Ultimate Tek Compendium:jellyfish:Cacti Tek List:raver2:

:mushroom2:Organize to Legalize Psilocybin:mushroom2:

Applying Jungian ideas to the psychedelic experience

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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: sycodelix]
    #25969644 -

been saying it for years, probably knock a good amount out of coma. There's just no science to prove it in hinkle town


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Re: Scientists want to give psychedelics to people in vegetative states [Re: sycodelix]
    #25971581 -

That would be interesting.  Won't happen, but the results would be interesting after the clinical trial over years. Hope they do it.  But am pessimistic towards such hopes as money and religion rules over common sense.

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