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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Have u read "confrontation with the unconcious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics?
    #25844284 - 02/28/19 05:41 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Ever since I first learned about Jung's ideas I've been fascinated by the idea of applying them to the psychedelic experience. Doing things like interpreting hallucinations as if they were dream symbols and trying to learn from that, speaking with/interviewing entities the same way you would dream characters (elderly mother hallucination example: "why do you appear as my mother?" "why do you look so much older than normal?" "what can I learn from you?"), trying to assimilate your shadow or interact with your anima, etc.

Finally somebody pointed me to this book today on this very subject (by scott hill) so I thought I'd ask if anybody had heard of any similar books, or if any of you have read this one. This one appears to have good reviews but doesn't seem very popular.

Also curious if any of you have applied Jungian concepts/practices to your trips and what have your results been like? Its been years since I've truly tripped hard but I'll be giving it a shot soon, can't wait. I think knowledge of symbolism and dreaming productively will be a huge benefit to me navigating the psychedelic experience.

For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, read some Jung because he's a friggin genius.


Edited by Psilosopherr (03/12/19 03:26 PM)


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconcious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #25844839 - 02/28/19 10:39 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Jung is simply awesome. I've applied a lot of his work to my psychedelic discoveries. Great shadow self concept and lots of wisdom in the unconscious.

I think he understood more than he wished, Jung himself was wary of psychedelics and didn't use them. He understood so greatly of the unconscious that to know more of it probably inspired great caution. He implied it becomes dangerous to know so much of the collective unconscious.

"How much of yourself are you willing and ready to know"?

Isn't it awesome he discovered all this without the use of any psychedelics? Shows you that it is possible without.


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


Edited by Eclipse3130 (02/28/19 10:51 PM)


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconcious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #25844861 - 02/28/19 10:57 PM (3 months, 17 days ago)

Hurray I got a reply! Figured there had to be some Jungian tripsters out there.

It always bummed me out when I saw that Jung himself didn't think psychedelics held much promise. But now that you've reminded me that he went through a period of psychosis for, what was it, several years? Yeah, anybody who's gone through a psychosis is justified in being wary of psychedelics :lol:

Glad to hear its been useful to you in your trips. I'm really excited to be working on this again, I was making some real progress a couple months ago


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OfflineEclipse3130
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconcious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #25844921 - 03/01/19 12:20 AM (3 months, 17 days ago)

The psychotic drowns in the same waters the mystic swims. Psychs always throw me into psychosis, it's not until after integration that I bring it full circle. Though now a days I don't trip much anymore, I'm glad to have in the past, small doses seem to push me much further


--------------------
"In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old
In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser
In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter
As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms
And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply
Different ways in which The
All-That Is
Perceives Itself"


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Offlinekorgoth
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconcious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #25847282 - 03/02/19 08:37 AM (3 months, 16 days ago)

Archetypes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jungian_archetypes

Quote:

Carl Jung understood archetypes as universal, archaic patterns and images that derive from the collective unconscious and are the psychic counterpart of instinct.[1] They are inherited potentials which are actualized when they enter consciousness as images or manifest in behavior on interaction with the outside world.[2] They are autonomous and hidden forms which are transformed once they enter consciousness and are given particular expression by individuals and their cultures. In Jungian psychology, archetypes are highly developed elements of the collective unconscious. The existence of archetypes can only be deduced indirectly by using story, art, myths, religions, or dreams.




To answer your question, Yes.
Dreams, trips and hallucinations are your own projections on to your consciousness.


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OfflineAldebaran
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconcious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #25852155 - 03/04/19 02:03 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Quote:

For those of you who have no idea what I'm talking about, read some Jung because he's a friggin genius.




Which works by Jung do you recommend for someone with an interest in psychedelics? I'm aware of Jung but for some reason I've never read anything by him.


--------------------
I wrote that, but I meant something else


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconcious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Aldebaran] * 1
    #25852163 - 03/04/19 02:09 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

His books will never speak directly about psychedelics but its easy to see the parallels

I started with "Man and his Symbols" and just fell in love. Its all about dreams/symbolism. And it was written specifically to introduce everyday people to his ideas.

I've also been liking "on active imagination." I think this one will also be relevant to psychedelics once I finally wrap my head around it but god that book is confusing. Jung can be a bit esoteric
t
I'd never heard of him either, even after taking multiple college level psych courses his name was never even mentioned. To me thats the equivalent of taking multiple electronics courses and nikola tesla never being mentioned. (but then again, half the times I bring up tesla people ask "who's that?") I still can't remember what possessed me to randomly buy man and his symbols but it forever changed my life for the better.


Edited by Psilosopherr (03/04/19 02:16 PM)


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OfflineCountHTML
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconcious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Psilosopherr] * 2
    #25852270 - 03/04/19 02:49 PM (3 months, 13 days ago)

Jung was one of those rare individuals who didn’t need psychedelics to really take the plunge into the nature of his own mind. The amount of insight that he came to possess was immense. He was one to admonish the use of psychedelics, or at least implied extreme caution when he said something like “Beware of unearned wisdom.”

His work nonetheless seems to offer a useful roadmap for trippers. It is easy for someone with inherent visionary capacity and strong introspective talent to admonish others for relying on tools to allow them to explore the same territory you do “on the natch.” I think his warning and caution was warranted, but I’d argue that in the case of genuinely curious and intrepid explorers of consciousness, psychologists or philosophers, none of the insight gleamed through utilizing psychedelic tools is unearned.

Whether he would have liked it or not, I think Jung very much leaves a psychedelic legacy. The psychology of the future—if it is to reconnect with its qualitative dimensional roots in shamanism—is inevitably psychedelic. No psychology worth it’s salt can neglect the internal-qualitative aspect of human experience.


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Offlinehongomagico
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconcious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: CountHTML]
    #25856438 - 03/06/19 03:16 PM (3 months, 11 days ago)

jung dissaproved of using psychedelics , almost all of the freudian psychoanalysts dissaproved too... it could make them lose clients ..

yes i have read some of jungs works and others commenting on it . apparently he had a faculty only known to him of immersing and exploring his unconscious and charting all human psyche... critics would point out that he only generalized Freud's lead to other myths...


Edited by hongomagico (03/06/19 03:21 PM)


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Offlinekorgoth
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconcious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: hongomagico]
    #25857247 - 03/06/19 09:27 PM (3 months, 11 days ago)

Quote:

it could make them lose clients ..




If i were a psychiatrist today that's where i would invest my money, psilocybin therapy.

One would present the patient with 2 options:
- old school way - a breakthrough after 1-2 years of weekly sessions.
- psilocybin therapy  - multiple breakthroughs in the span of 2-3 months.

Quote:

critics would point out that he only generalized Freud's lead to other myths...



They were best buds for a while, they probably influenced each other's work in some manner.

It's the Edison-Tesla dynamic in the psychiatric field.


Edited by korgoth (03/06/19 09:29 PM)


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconcious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Eclipse3130]
    #25857580 - 03/07/19 03:41 AM (3 months, 11 days ago)

Been meaning to explore Jung more myself. Especially as a psyche major. Only heard loosely of some of his work. Very interesting.

Quote:

Eclipse3130 said:
The psychotic drowns in the same waters the mystic swims. Psychs always throw me into psychosis, it's not until after integration that I bring it full circle. Though now a days I don't trip much anymore, I'm glad to have in the past, small doses seem to push me much further




Nice quote. I feel psychedelics are similar to external induced psychosis. Maybe you learn similar things when its internal induced psychosis without the external mushrooms causing it..? :shrug:

Same type of place im in ATM.

Seems I did enough tripping in a short enough span to make room for long breaks of integration I never took before.

I have this theory that once you start pushing too far past your current (now past) state of conciousness, you simply need time to readjust. Guess that's called reintegration :lol: I think that "stretch" and rest is different for everyone. Maybe a certain distance or "growth" we can travel or "accomplish" before rest is needed for readjustment. Maybe a limit for each life even.

Maybe not :shrug:


--------------------
Within You , Without You


:mushroom2::levitate::mushroom2:


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OfflineAldous
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconscious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Enkidu] * 3
    #25869802 - 03/12/19 02:02 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

Yes, I've read this book recently, and I've never understood how it's not more popular in the psychedelic community, because the parallels are obvious. Some psychedelic pundits (including Leary back in the day) will mention Jung here and there, but it's beyond me that no-one wrote a full book on the parallels earlier than this one, and that it seems to go largely unnoticed.

Personally I discovered Jung after a brief but very puzzling possession experience on ayahuasca. The shaman I was drinking with at the time had a very Catholic and Manichean worldview in which he framed the psychedelic experience and his own work. Every ailment was seen as some kind of possession, and he told me not to 'make any compromise' with that entity, which was in retrospect simply an aspect of my shadow.

Once I got back home from Peru I tried to make sense of this experience for years. I had experienced something I didn't believe in, which was quite confusing. None of the therapists, healers or other people I talked to could help me in a significant way. That's when I discovered Jung, and it helped me make some theoretical sense. The breakthrough came when I met a European shaman who purposefully made some gentle fun of my 'demon' before we drank together. During the session, this helped me get over my fear of meeting it again, and when it came back I could see it for what it was: an amalgam of repressed childhood feelings, namely fear, anger and sadness. When I started wondering what these feelings had to tell me about myself, I had a vision of my dad sexually abusing my sister, something I never would have imagined. This sent me on a few years of exploration of a transgenerational cascade of incest running through several generations in my family. Later on I was able to independently verify that there had been at the very least inappropriate incestuous attitudes and energies between my dad and my grandmother, and between my dad and my sister. And most likely more than just attitudes and energies. As far as I can tell I was never involved.

So yeah, the shadow is a powerful thing, and it has a lot to tell us about ourselves, our history, our family and many other things we have repressed or never consciously processed. Too bad it scares some people away (including some shamans, obviously), because the work is precisely where the shadow pops up. When you see a monster, ask it what it has to teach you. As scary as it might seem, it's there to tell you something crucial about yourself and to help you on your path.

Thanks for bringing this up, OP :heart:


Edited by Aldous (03/12/19 02:04 PM)


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconscious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Aldous]
    #25869993 - 03/12/19 03:10 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

"Yes, I've read this book recently, and I've never understood how it's not more popular in the psychedelic community, because the parallels are obvious. Some psychedelic pundits (including Leary back in the day) will mention Jung here and there, but it's beyond me that no-one wrote a full book on the parallels earlier than this one, and that it seems to go largely unnoticed."




This quote + the fact that you've read this book + your username being aldous (huxley I'm assuming) makes you my new best friend.

It really is crazy how few people in the psychedelic community seem to know about this stuff, thats why I decided to leave this in my sig permanently. I never know quite how to explain this stuff to noobies though but hopefully it'll do some good. Maybe some sort of simple guide to the practices/parallels in the future

Very interesting story about making sense of your possession. I had not heard of such a thing being traced back to the shadow before. Nice work :thumbup:

Guess I'll have to get this book then! So glad I posted this.


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconscious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #25870014 - 03/12/19 03:18 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

Can you guys post the exact boom you're talking about,maybe I missed it?

Awesome post Aldous,thanks for sharing that


--------------------
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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconscious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Enkidu]
    #25870041 - 03/12/19 03:26 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

oh yeah there's no link in op is there? I'll add that after posting this link to the book


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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconscious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #25870046 - 03/12/19 03:29 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

Thanks man !

My bad I was confused because I saw you mention the author but wasn't sure if you were also referring to a book by jung

Thank you :super:


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OfflineAldous
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconscious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #25870219 - 03/12/19 04:59 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

Quote:

Psilosopherr said:
This quote + the fact that you've read this book + your username being aldous (huxley I'm assuming) makes you my new best friend.


Haha, you're welcome :smile:

Jung can be quite esoteric at times, also because some of his 'books' are actually loose collections of lectures and conferences. I think his autobiography (which he actually hardly wrote himself) is a very good entry point and gives an accessible overview of his ideas and work. From there you can proceed to other stuff that draws your attention and interest.


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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconscious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Aldous]
    #25870618 - 03/12/19 09:07 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

Thanks for that advice Aldous


--------------------
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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconscious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Aldous]
    #25870655 - 03/12/19 09:30 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

Yes I ought to read that, a general overview sounds nice. I've still only read man and his symbols and jung on active imagination

And yeah like you said its hard to know where to go next sometimes with the nature of how his stuff is written


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Offlinekorgoth
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Re: Have u read "confrontation with the unconscious" or any other books about Jung/psychedelics? [Re: Enkidu]
    #25870666 - 03/12/19 09:38 PM (3 months, 5 days ago)

Another vote for his partial autobiography - "Memories, Dreams, Reflections". Great introduction.

I started reading it out of curiosity when I was 16, some of it was complete gibberish to me at the time, but i did finish it and Jungs core ideas have stuck with me over the years. They've helped me tremendously in handling my own demons.


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