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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: ballsalsa] * 1
    #25701934 -

We specialize in the art of no lube.
A salty Gunnery Sgt told me of the fall of the  Fao peninsula by mustard gas and resulting Krud causalities  while the US turned a blind eye. At that time, it was hush hush stuff as we helped ("facilitate") gas parts of Iran via Iraq.


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

Edited by SirTripAlot (12/25/18 10:22 AM)

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #25703601 -

The interesting thing about this is that if the war stops then the aid will slow or stop. What leveragel does Assad have then? The economy is crushed. Bleak times to continue it seems.


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Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

I’m sorry it had to be me.

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: christopera]
    #25703822 -

What aid by whom and to whom are you referring to?


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: koods]
    #25703908 -

koods said:
Article on the post today about Assad clearing out his prisons with mass executions. 100k or more.jes


Where did you get "100k or more" from?  Your article says "more than 100,000 Syrian detainees remain unaccounted for. According to the United Nations and human rights groups, thousands, if not tens of thousands, are probably dead."  Probably???

The Washington Post (the reigning king of fake news) is the only one pushing this story.  It is based on the testimony of "two former detainees" previously released by Assad.

Just curious - how do you think released prisoners who are now in Turkey know what is going on in the Syrian prisons today?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25704189 -

No dispute with what you said, but it's hard to take someone seriously that believes the Washington post is the epitome of fake news. Epitome of popular/msm liberal fake news? Maybe, I don't know, but compared to fox news, breitbart, or any of those organizations that commonly outright lie as opposed to simply spin and omit details? No.. just no.

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: krypto2000]
    #25704345 -

krypto2000 said:
No dispute with what you said, but it's hard to take someone seriously that believes the Washington post is the epitome of fake news. Epitome of popular/msm liberal fake news? Maybe, I don't know, but compared to fox news, breitbart, or any of those organizations that commonly outright lie as opposed to simply spin and omit details? No.. just no.


Fox has been the only mainstream news source demanding evidence for Russiagate accusations, and one of the few mainstream news sources that publishes unfavorable news for Russiagaters, like this:

https://video.foxnews.com/v/5977661555001/?#sp=show-clips

"Comey confirms no evidence of collusion in Russia case"
Dec. 10, 2018


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #25704386 -

So they're less fake because they support your preconceived bias? That very report seams "fake" to me.

He didn't say there was no evidence and he sure as hell didn't confirm there wasn't any, he said that when they opened the investigation he did not know if the evidence was credible. Should thst be surprising? That's why you open an investigation.

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: krypto2000]
    #25704475 -

krypto2000 said:
So they're less fake because they support your preconceived bias? That very report seams "fake" to me.


Did I say that?  Why do you keep make believing things I said?

What I said is that Fox actually wants evidence, and that they are willing to present actual facts that are unpopular with Russiagaters, such as the Comey quote I posted above.

And there's an entire transcript of what was said on the House of Representatives website, so the report clearly isn't fake.

I credit the establishment media for turning American liberals into anything that goes against Trump, even peace in Syria.

krypto2000 said:
He didn't say there was no evidence and he sure as hell didn't confirm there wasn't any, he said that when they opened the investigation he did not know if the evidence was credible.


Did he say "he did not know if the evidence was credible" or did he even say he had any evidence, or did you just make believe that again?

He said (and this is the actual quote): "We opened them in late July, didn't know whether we had anything.  In fact, when I was fired as director, I still didn't know whether there was anything to it."

He also said:  "Did we have evidence in July of '16 that anyone in the Trump campaign conspired to hack the DNC server? The challenge in answering that is - and please don't take this nonanswer to imply that there is such information - I don't think that the FBI and special counsel want me answering questions that may relate to their investigation of Russian interference during 2016. And I worry that that would cross that line, Mr. Gowdy."

In other words, "please don't take my (non)answer to imply that there is any evidence"


You keep make believing what other people say.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25704724 -

We know there was evidence, but your definition of evidence is what most people use to mean proof, this is a result of the constant spin by the right to confuse and muddle terminology. We knoe there was the steel dossier and the australian diplomat off the top of my head. There's a slee of evidence (not proof). You don't start an investigation without evidence.

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: krypto2000]
    #25704754 -

Evidence and proof are synonymous


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: Enlil]
    #25704780 -

So you would say thst an eye witness testimony is proof thst someone commited the crime? I would say it is evidence, but not proof. Every hit I see on google agrees with this.

Quote:
Proof vs. Evidence

Another word that is commonly misused (sadly, sometimes even by scientists, who should know better) is "proof".

What "proof" means in everyday speech:
In casual conversations, most people use the word "proof" when they mean that there is indisputable evidence that supports an idea.

Scientists should be wary of using the term "proof". Science does not "prove" things. Science can and does provide evidence in favor of, or against, a particular idea. In science, proofs are possible only in the highly abstract world of mathematics.

What should scientists say instead of "proof"?
Scientists should use the term "evidence" instead of the word "proof". When we test our hypotheses, we obtain evidence that supports or rejects the hypotheses. We do not "prove" our hypotheses.

While this may seem like a subtle difference, the words we use can subconsciously color our thinking. "Proof" suggests that a matter is completely settled, that we have had the last word on something.


https://oregonstate.edu/instruction/bb317/scientifictheories.html

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: krypto2000]
    #25704810 -

It's evidence and proof.  Is it proof beyond a shadow of a doubt? No. It's certainly enough to convict someone in america,  though. That means it definitely can be proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

What you linked is scientific proof which is completely different.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: Enlil]
    #25704821 -

No, it is specifically evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt because evidence is a lower standard than proof. Proof is evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt. Google evidence vs proof, literally every source disagrees with you, you're arguing colliquial usage vs their specific meaning and derailing the discussion in the process.

Do you disagree that there is evidence in the russia investigation?

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: krypto2000] * 1
    #25704828 -

There is never evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt unless we're talking about math. You're the one derailing because the discussion isn't about math


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: krypto2000]
    #25704869 -

krypto2000 said:
We know there was evidence, but your definition of evidence is what most people use to mean proof...

We knoe there was the steel dossier and the australian diplomat off the top of my head. There's a slee of evidence (not proof). You don't start an investigation without evidence.


Enlil or krypto:

- Is Hillary claiming she believes she lost the election as a result of Russian interference due to Trump collusion with Russia evidence?
- Is an Austalian diplomat (Alexander Downer) telling American officials that Papadopoulos told him that a British professor (Joseph Mifsud) told him that the Russian ambassador to the U.K. (Alexander Yakovenko) told him that someone in Russia told him they had dirt on Hillary evidence?

PS - I'm on krypto's side regarding the proof vs evidence discussion.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25704872 -

So you believe the only type of proof is beyond a shadow of a doubt? There's no discussion to be had when you've adopted an absurd standard.


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Censoring opposing views since 2014.



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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #25704886 -

To point #1 I'm not sure, nor am I sure how that relates.

To #2 yes, do you think it's not evidence? Do you think the FBI should have dismissed that as opposed to investigating it? To me even if they think it along with the steel dossier are both fake they should investigate why they were faked.

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: Enlil]
    #25704914 -

Enlil said:
So you believe the only type of proof is beyond a shadow of a doubt? There's no discussion to be had when you've adopted an absurd standard.


Did krypto or I say that anywhere?

The opposite is true.  There is more than two types of evidence, as you've implied with krypto.  Evidence can range from reasonable suspicion to preponderance of the evidence, to clear and convincing evidence, to beyond a reasonable doubt, to mathematical proof.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: Enlil]
    #25704915 -

Enlil said:
So you believe the only type of proof is beyond a shadow of a doubt? There's no discussion to be had when you've adopted an absurd standard.


I feel like you're getting side tracked. Colliquially proof and evidence are often used interchangeably, some people such as myself use the more strict definition and most tend to acknowledge it once it's brought up (the distinction can be useful). It's important to make sure we're using the same vocabulary, if I'm calling evidence what he considers proof we could be arguing over nothing without realizing it (this happened before with us which is why I brought it up).

The whole point of this was to point out the distinction thst the fox news headline was not true when using evidence to mean what it does in a legal sense as opposed to proof/without a doubt. If they had said proof it would be a true headline, but they said evidence. I believe to confuse the public over the colliquial use and the legal use of the term, in effect weakening the evidence itself in the public perception. What are your thoughts on their claim of "no evidence?" Do you agree thst the headline is not true?

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Re: US withdraw from Syria [Re: krypto2000]
    #25704920 -

everyone's bustin' your chops today.

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