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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: qman]
    #25625952 -

Quote:
So Farage isn't the insignificant man many claimed he was in this thread, correct?


Who claimed that?


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Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.  -Noam Chomsky

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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: qman]
    #25626045 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
I thought y’all were giddy about the rise of fascism?


Nope, just warning people like yourself the dangers of forcing unpopular policies on the German population.


I mean... desegregation at one time was an unpopular policy that was literally enforced at gunpoint by the national guard, yet it was still the right thing to do.

Do you think basing policy around avoiding threat of reactionary backlash will really provide the best outcome?


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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25626091 -

Don’t you know? Upsetting the racists only makes them more racist.

We have to cater to the worst aspects of our society if we ever want to improve it. :braindamage:


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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25627029 -

shivas.wisdom said:
qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
I thought y’all were giddy about the rise of fascism?


Nope, just warning people like yourself the dangers of forcing unpopular policies on the German population.


I mean... desegregation at one time was an unpopular policy that was literally enforced at gunpoint by the national guard, yet it was still the right thing to do.

Do you think basing policy around avoiding threat of reactionary backlash will really provide the best outcome?


It really depends on the policy that creates the backlash.  Does the policy hurt the economic and social environment for the native population, if so, avoid it.

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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25627036 -

The Ecstatic said:
Don’t you know? Upsetting the racists only makes them more racist.


I'm not sure what race has to do with the migrant crisis, it was a disaster regardless of the race of the migrants.

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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: qman] * 1
    #25627136 -

For someone obsessed with race related issues you sure do have a hard time finding situations where race applies.


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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25627156 -

The Ecstatic said:
For someone obsessed with race related issues you sure do have a hard time finding situations where race applies.


Says the guy who just claimed opposition to illegal migrantion is based in racism.

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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: qman] * 1
    #25627157 -

It very clearly is.


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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25627248 -

The Ecstatic said:
It very clearly is.


Yeah, because the socioeconomic impact has been non-existent, even you don't buy into that nonsense.

Sorry, but the vest majority of people still put value on borders, national sovereignty and citizenship.  That fact does not make them racist.

Edited by qman (11/20/18 10:27 AM)

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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: XUL]
    #25627269 -

what is a Brexit? 



I want one.  how much are they?


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When telling the truth becomes an act of treason, and society chooses delusion and deception over fundamental reality, you've been invaded and infiltrated by other beings that have now integrated into your country and community.  Bless our reptile overlords who control, harvest, and eat us.

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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: sprinkles]
    #25627276 -

Tree fiddy


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TRUMP 2020

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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: qman]
    #25627298 -

qman said:
shivas.wisdom said:
qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
I thought y’all were giddy about the rise of fascism?


Nope, just warning people like yourself the dangers of forcing unpopular policies on the German population.


I mean... desegregation at one time was an unpopular policy that was literally enforced at gunpoint by the national guard, yet it was still the right thing to do.

Do you think basing policy around avoiding threat of reactionary backlash will really provide the best outcome?


It really depends on the policy that creates the backlash.  Does the policy hurt the economic and social environment for the native population, if so, avoid it.


What if the economic situation is unclear (for example, immigration being a net-loss economically in the short-term, but a net-gain long-term), how much importance should we assign to the social perception of reactionaries?

What if a policy is economically beneficial, but perceived as socially harmful by reactionaries, should we avoid the policy or force it through?

And, I would appreciate a clear answer here: do you think basing policy around avoiding the threat of reactionary backlash will provide the best outcome? Yes or no.


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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: XUL]
    #25627303 -

a piecost ran in front of me last week.  I slammed on the brakes and slid into the ditch to keep from hitting the damn thing and broke the lights in the front of the jeep.  reminds me  I gotta call some junk yards and see if anyone gots any


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When telling the truth becomes an act of treason, and society chooses delusion and deception over fundamental reality, you've been invaded and infiltrated by other beings that have now integrated into your country and community.  Bless our reptile overlords who control, harvest, and eat us.

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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: qman] * 1
    #25627408 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
It very clearly is.


Yeah, because the socioeconomic impact has been non-existent, even you don't buy into that nonsense.

Sorry, but the vest majority of people still put value on borders, national sovereignty and citizenship.  That fact does not make them racist.


Lol they don’t actually care about those things though.

The anti immigrant zealots don’t care about borders or sovereignty when it comes to US foreign policy, and many of them are arguing right now about changing the Constitution in regards to who is and isn’t a citizen.

I wonder what accounts for this discrepancy.


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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #25627466 -

qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
I thought y’all were giddy about the rise of fascism?


Nope, just warning people like yourself the dangers of forcing unpopular policies on the German population.


I mean... desegregation at one time was an unpopular policy that was literally enforced at gunpoint by the national guard, yet it was still the right thing to do.

Do you think basing policy around avoiding threat of reactionary backlash will really provide the best outcome?


It really depends on the policy that creates the backlash.  Does the policy hurt the economic and social environment for the native population, if so, avoid it.


What if the economic situation is unclear (for example, immigration being a net-loss economically in the short-term, but a net-gain long-term), how much importance should we assign to the social perception of reactionaries?

What if a policy is economically beneficial, but perceived as socially harmful by reactionaries, should we avoid the policy or force it through?

And, I would appreciate a clear answer here: do you think basing policy around avoiding the threat of reactionary backlash will provide the best outcome? Yes or no.


If the economic situation is "unclear"?  Well, obviously, it's all about what's happening in the present and near future. You're not going to convince people suffering today that in just three generations, everything MIGHT turnout just fine, that doesn't cut it.  Humans are short term thinkers because we have short term lives. 

What if economic perception is altered due to some sort of bias?  I wouldn't worry about it, IF people are doing better economically, they're not going to bitch about immigration.  The fact of the matter is- the working class almost NEVER benefits from large scale immigration into their homelands.  Does it benefit the people that own the wealth?  YES.

Today we live in such a different world, living in the EU or US is very expensive. What happens when people get sick?  EVERYONE is entitled to health care, who pays for it? 

When my Polish ancestors came into the US, they were no burden to the existing population.  If they got sick, too bad. If they had no food or shelter, too bad.  They only provided ONE thing for the existing working class- LOWER WAGES.

We are never going to see a reactionary backlash IF the immigration is controlled and IF it were to benefit almost everyone economically and socially.  Today, it's impossible to see a scenario where bringing in millions of third world migrants into the developed world doesn't harm the 
native population.

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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25627484 -

The Ecstatic said:
qman said:
The Ecstatic said:
It very clearly is.


Yeah, because the socioeconomic impact has been non-existent, even you don't buy into that nonsense.

Sorry, but the vest majority of people still put value on borders, national sovereignty and citizenship.  That fact does not make them racist.


Lol they don’t actually care about those things though.

The anti immigrant zealots don’t care about borders or sovereignty when it comes to US foreign policy, and many of them are arguing right now about changing the Constitution in regards to who is and isn’t a citizen.

I wonder what accounts for this discrepancy.


My concern is about my homeland and national sovereignty, not the sovereignty of nations that can't defend themselves.

Also, birthright citizenship needs to be addressed in the US, we're the only suckers in the developed world when it comes to this policy.

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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: qman] * 1
    #25627549 -

Yeah exactly. People only care about those things when it affects themselves, and not other people.

How could anyone ever mistake that for racism


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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25627706 -

All i ever hear on TV and radio etc is how everyone is doing all they can to stop brexit. I want it to happen just because i wanna see what happens, i dont really care either way. It will all end up the same nothing will really change apart from the EU will find some other way to bum us out of the billions we wont be paying them.


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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #25627769 -

The Ecstatic said:
Yeah exactly. People only care about those things when it affects themselves, and not other people.

How could anyone ever mistake that for racism


Yet, you continue to do so.  How am I racist if I put the needs of US citizens ahead of people living in Poland?

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Re: Farage: The EU is becoming a German lead union that wants to be militarized [Re: 2in1] * 2
    #25627821 -

2in1 said:
Guys, the population of the UK voted to get out of the EU.


of course you meant to write that (only) 37.46% of the electorate in the UK voted to leave the EU, right?  if 51.89% voted to leave and turnout was 72.21%, then just a little over a third of the electorate voted to leave...not quite "the population of the UK".


2in1 said:
Spin it any way you want you either believe in democracy or not.

We know what we voted for and we will be happy when we are finally free from the autocratic new world order organisation called the EU.


spin it any way you want, but much like those who say that trump has a mandate 'from the american people', only a little more than a third will be happy when the UK is no longer a member state of the EU according to the results of the referendum vote.  additionally, many of those who voted to leave have seemingly had second thoughts according to the (limited) polling done since then.


from here:
Quote:
Polls that ask people how they would vote now in response to the question that appeared on the ballot paper in June 2016 have, in fact, been relatively few and far between.

But those that have been conducted suggest there may have been a small swing in favour of Remain.

The four most recent readings - taken by BMG Research and Survation between November and January - have, on average, once the 8% who said "don't know" are left to one side, put Remain on 52% and Leave on 48%.

In contrast, four such polls undertaken towards the end of 2016 still put Leave narrowly ahead, by 51% to 49%.



2in1 said:
No amount of fear mongering will make us change our minds, we are not a fickle nation and we will get our freedom eventually. 


haha, ok, good one.  see the polls conducted since the remain/leave vote.  admittedly, the polling is limited and all polls have a margin of error, but people change their minds all the time whether we're discussing matters small or large.


2in1 said:
You should have seen how happy everyone was when the result of the referendum came out. Most people in the UK are proud of our country and heritage, and no that doesn't mean being racist.



everyone?  or just everyone in your circle of friends/family?  everyone?  c'mon, let's be a little more honest here, yeah?

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General Interest > Political Discussion
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