airclay said:

qman said:

airclay said:

I'm pretty sure the more logic you use tipote the further bubbs and qman shove their heads up their asses. It's like they either don't understand what the other side is saying or are just straight up dismissive as it doesn't fit into their scared of the world narrative.

instead of thinking and providing counterpoints it's just rewording the same arguments over and over.

and lol @ qman stating he hasn't claimed "cultural diversity is a failure". dude you say that shit all the time, anytime a white man has to rub elbows with anyone else.

---

I quote "cultural diversity" meaning Muslims in the EU, that's why I put it in quotes.

I have always stated that cultural diversity can work under ideal conditions, but I don't think third world people flooding into the EU is a optimal condition for a success story, so far it's been a big failure.

---

uh huh, does that include the time you've referenced that in discussions about black folk?

and another lol @ bubbles just lol at you "but but but what about my rights to be an insufferable violent dick head? wahhhhhhhh"

---

Yea, good job twisting my words, taking them completely out of context and purposefully trying to interpret them to mean what ever you want them to mean.

Bubbles85 said:

Tipote said:

Or those apologising for fascist thugs who attack muslim women in defense of "OUR" women..LOL

---

Tipote said:

Bubbles85 said:

You seem to continually try to disprove the facts, or show them as being incorrectly reported, when these events involving Muslims happen.
Yet when the shoe is on the other foot, you take it as absolute with out a second thought and try to use it as a weapon in your discussion.

---

What facts am I trying to disprove? I said his conclusion and methodology was flawed but he said a lot of accurate things in between his annotations. What am i disproving??

What am i using "as a weapon"?

Are you high bubbles?

---

I wasn't speaking specifically about the documentary, i was speaking in general about the entire discussions revolving around certain Muslims.

I was also pointing out your hipocracy when it comes to the apologetic nature you present toward these Muslims and the fact that you do not extend the same level of thought to native Europeans, who stand up against what they believe, either rightly or wrongly, is the Islamification of their home country's.

We've heard of only one instance of a far right member attacking a Muslim women and you've not shut the fuck up about it since. Yet the rapes, attacks and sexual assaults from the Muslim population in Europe have been endless.
When its a Muslim in the spot light, we must try to "understand" and accept that its due to their "discrimination"

The hipocracy here is what i was pointing out ....

Tipote said:

can you provide those stats please?

---

Come on man, you know as well as i do, that in several European country's, Muslim men now commit a higher number of rapes than any other group. Sweden for example has a 2% Muslim population, yet it's estimated that Muslims commit 77% of all rapes and the women targeted, are predominantly white European.

Tipote said:

If you go to some parts of London, it is sometimes only Orthodox Jewish and i would be certain of some shared views about women and homosexuality to say the least.

---

Tipote said:

What anti-semitiic things have I said, Bubbles? I'm interested to know!

---

I was poking fun at you more than any thing. I've seen countless threads and posts of yours bitching about Jews lol. So to see it again in the context presented here and right after the documentary we're discussing, highlighted some major Anti-Semitism with in the Muslim community's in the UK, was funny

---

Bubbles85 said:

Tipote said:

Or those apologising for fascist thugs who attack muslim women in defense of "OUR" women..LOL

---

Tipote said:

Bubbles85 said:

You seem to continually try to disprove the facts, or show them as being incorrectly reported, when these events involving Muslims happen.
Yet when the shoe is on the other foot, you take it as absolute with out a second thought and try to use it as a weapon in your discussion.

---

What facts am I trying to disprove? I said his conclusion and methodology was flawed but he said a lot of accurate things in between his annotations. What am i disproving??

What am i using "as a weapon"?

Are you high bubbles?

---

I wasn't speaking specifically about the documentary, i was speaking in general about the entire discussions revolving around certain Muslims.

I was also pointing out your hipocracy when it comes to the apologetic nature you present toward these Muslims and the fact that you do not extend the same level of thought to native Europeans, who stand up against what they believe, either rightly or wrongly, is the Islamification of their home country's.

We've heard of only one instance of a far right member attacking a Muslim women and you've not shut the fuck up about it since. Yet the rapes, attacks and sexual assaults from the Muslim population in Europe have been endless.
When its a Muslim in the spot light, we must try to "understand" and accept that its due to their "discrimination"

The hipocracy here is what i was pointing out ....

---

So i'll ask again - what am I disproving? What am I using as a weapon?

What do you mean about my "apologetic nature...towards these Muslims"? Which Muslims are you talking about? I don't apologise for criminals, I just call for an appreciation of context that these influxes are not monolithic. Its important to remember that the vast majority of refugees are not committing these crimes.

not trying to be a dick but don't you have spell check on here?

What one instance of a far right member attacking muslim women are you talking about? Where am I not shutting up about the one case? There have been many and i'm referring to far more than one!! I don't even know what specific case you are thinking of.

also the rapes etc have not been "endless". words actually mean things, bubbles.

I've spoken repeatedly about understanding the legitimate grievances of all parts of the political spectrum of European natives (which also include muslims for the millionth time) but I have also spoken repeatedly about understanding the legitimate grievances of muslim populations globally. You straw man away and reframe my position to be: muslims do bad things - its fine/ right wing europeans do bad things - they are evil. You are putting words in my mouth and assigning positions to me that I do not hold!

Bubbles85 said:

Tipote said:

can you provide those stats please?

---

Come on man, you know as well as i do, that in several European country's, Muslim men now commit a higher number of rapes than any other group. Sweden for example has a 2% Muslim population, yet it's estimated that Muslims commit 77% of all rapes and the women targeted, are predominantly white European.

---

I'm not disputing that there are high levels of sexual assaults among some muslim immigrant groups, I believe my original point was about how people particularly on the right will be saying that islam is bad because they are bad to women, and then those people attack women. I was just highlighting the double standard.

Bubbles85 said:

Tipote said:

If you go to some parts of London, it is sometimes only Orthodox Jewish and i would be certain of some shared views about women and homosexuality to say the least.

---

Tipote said:

What anti-semitiic things have I said, Bubbles? I'm interested to know!

---

I was poking fun at you more than any thing. I've seen countless threads and posts of yours bitching about Jews lol. So to see it again in the context presented here and right after the documentary we're discussing, highlighted some major Anti-Semitism with in the Muslim community's in the UK, was funny

---

Can you please show me one of my posts of mine where I am "bitching about Jews" You're chatting nonsense, Bubbles. Zionism is not equivalent to Judaism. Making a suggestion that orthodox jews or christians will have incredibly intolerant views just like Islam is NOT antisemitism.

perhaps you need to label your jokes in future or make them funny.

Bubbles85 said:

Tipote said:

my point (clearly you missed it) is that they should have shown the stats for muslims are compared to abrahamic faiths and sects as certain views are shared between jews muslims and christians.. the methodology was sloppy at best.

---

It was clearly stated that they used a control sample to compare what British Muslims thought with the rest of the population.

---

yes but dont you see that framing as unhelpful and misleading? All I'm saying is that they should have compared the abrahamic religions against a control group. would have made more sense surely? all religions have radically different views from the "norm". I also think the sampling was not broad by focusing on certain neighbourhoods in birmingham because surely that is not representative of what british muslims think!? That is what isolated groups in muslim majority communities might think. Can you see the difference?

Quote:

Muslims in Europe and around the world for that matter, are causing far more upset than any other religious, cultural or ethnic group.
Why penalize other ethnic minority's living in Britain, for the actions of Muslims, when they integrate and cause no problems? Large percentages of the Muslim population are busy doing the complete opposite.

---

While absolutely Islam is particularly in crisis and some aspects are causing much upset, it is only your assumption that upset caused by muslims is vastly larger than the upset caused by the entire Judeo-Christian world.

So are you saying that to include any comparison between abrahamic faiths is penalising minorities? are you saying then that it's ok to "penalise" British Muslims collectively for the actions of some muslims?

Quote:

I was approached by a group of radical Muslims in Coventry city center just last Saturday afternoon, handing out leaflets and preaching their bull shit, after leaving a bar with a few mates (yes we told them to fuck off) as did pretty much every one else they tried to stop. People in Europe don't want it, yet it is now common place here.

---

oooh wow *swoon*. how impressive of you bubbles. So some muslims were handing out leaflets and you told them to fuck off.
Do you not value freedom of speech then? Sounds like you were the only one being a dick in that situation

Bubbles85 said:

100%. These people are not "largely refugees" as Tip claims at all. This has been debunked countless times now. At least 60% "maybe more" are coming from countries where you can assume, they have no reason to come to Europe and attempt to apply for asylum, as you say qman.

---

the 60% figure has been debunked actually if you read the post in response to qman on this..

got any other stats then to back up this weak claim?

even if it were accurate, it was specifically talking about a certain time/wave of people, it was NOT referring to the entire crisis.
but its not accurate.

airclay said:

qman said:

airclay said:

I'm pretty sure the more logic you use tipote the further bubbs and qman shove their heads up their asses. It's like they either don't understand what the other side is saying or are just straight up dismissive as it doesn't fit into their scared of the world narrative.

instead of thinking and providing counterpoints it's just rewording the same arguments over and over.

and lol @ qman stating he hasn't claimed "cultural diversity is a failure". dude you say that shit all the time, anytime a white man has to rub elbows with anyone else.

---

I quote "cultural diversity" meaning Muslims in the EU, that's why I put it in quotes.

I have always stated that cultural diversity can work under ideal conditions, but I don't think third world people flooding into the EU is a optimal condition for a success story, so far it's been a big failure.

---

uh huh, does that include the time you've referenced that in discussions about black folk?

---

Bubbles85 said:

Tipote said:

"the fire of islam"

more muslims have died from the west than westerners have died from muslims but I don't hear anyone talking about the destructive fire of the West.

These double standards are one of the main obstacles to reasoned discussion on this.

---

False ...

Tears of Jihad

These figures are a rough estimate of the number of deaths of non-Muslims by the political act of jihad. Total, 270 million non-Muslims killed by jihad [Muslims]

This videos all ways a good watch from the same page too ....

---

qman said:

Did you forget this part of my link? "Assaults, robberies, and what Germany classes as 'predatory extortion' and 'offenses against personal freedom', including threatening behavior, doubled in 2014 with 36,010 cases, accounting for 18 percent of crime total"

Looks like they're not the innocent little angles you think they are, far from it.

---

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Looks like they're not the innocent little angles you think they are, far from it.


Yeah, they're just a bunch of sweethearts. 

---

You're starting to sound like HU now.

NO ONE claimed every single refugee is an innocent little sweetheart angel.  You seem to believe that if there's a few bad apples, everyone needs to be punished.  And if that's your position, be clear about it.  Don't falsely claim the other side thinks that every refugee is a sweetheart.

---

spot on. qman wants to be the straw man king..the strawy game of thrones is in motion.

also @qman - do you think muslimstatistics (with the logo of a blood splattered islamic crescent) is a credible and impartial source?

no one has said there isn't crime amongst muslims and that there wouldnt be an increase with an increase of people.

Tipote said:

qman said:

Did you forget this part of my link? "Assaults, robberies, and what Germany classes as 'predatory extortion' and 'offenses against personal freedom', including threatening behavior, doubled in 2014 with 36,010 cases, accounting for 18 percent of crime total"

Looks like they're not the innocent little angles you think they are, far from it.

---

Can you show me where at any point I said that these people were all "innocent little angels"? I've said many times that there are criminals in all groups of people.

No I did not miss the assaults, robberies etc. If you read what I wrote, I did actually say that there also many very serious crimes.

My point is that robbing and assaulting people is based on the drive for things like money. attacks on mosques, muslims and refugee centres are crimes of hate.

---

Oh really, it's so nice of you quantify the seriousness of these criminal acts.

Guess what?  When you physically and sexually assault a native European, it's NOT based on money, it's based on HATE!!

What do you think was the motivation for the physical and sexual attacks in Cologne?  It wasn't for monetary gain, it was based on the hatred and jealousy of German natives, your rationalization for this behavior is beyond pathetic, you should be ashamed of yourself.

"attacks on mosques, muslims, and refugee centers are crimes of hate"

I agree, why can't you also be unbiased in your approach to this subject?

qman said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Looks like they're not the innocent little angles you think they are, far from it.
Yeah, they're just a bunch of sweethearts. 

---

You're starting to sound like HU now.

NO ONE claimed every single refugee is an innocent little sweetheart angel.  You seem to believe that if there's a few bad apples, everyone needs to be punished.  And if that's your position, be clear about it.  Don't falsely claim the other side thinks that every refugee is a sweetheart.

---

Maybe you missed when Tip made this statement- "the crimes of refugees are not the same kind of crimes that are being committed against them".

You do support that claim as well?  He's clearly suggesting that the natives are the problem and the "refugees" are the victims in this relationship.

---

you, as always, miss the point. I didn't say natives are the problem, i said hatred targetting muslims collectively is the problem. I'm astounded that you consistently insist on writing refugees with the "". You can ignore all the data you want but it doesnt change reality.
The fact is that refugees by being refugees are already victims, they are clearly vulnerable peoples. YES some take advantage of that, criminals and others do this - absolutely - but this doesnt take away from the fact that the majority of refugees are not committing these crimes. The vast majority of crimes youve even highlighted are not serious crimes.

it is important to remember context and power relations. an entire heterogeneous group of people cannot be branded the same, it is always the most vulnerable that will suffer the abuses, not the assholes that deserve it. You fuel this narrative in part.

Daesh have been recently speaking about plans around targetting European beach resorts while posing as refugees. The hatred against refugees collectively is directly in the interests of Daesh but you dont seem to mind that. If you would, it would give an incentive for an understanding of nuance. Daesh tactics help rip Europe apart and your limited thinking assists them.

Islamophobia is a thing and serves a purpose for Daesh and Western security services. Nowadays its almost normal to see a story about muslim people being forced off planes because they were speaking their own language!

Tipote said:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:

qman said:

Looks like they're not the innocent little angles you think they are, far from it.


Yeah, they're just a bunch of sweethearts. 

---

You're starting to sound like HU now.

NO ONE claimed every single refugee is an innocent little sweetheart angel.  You seem to believe that if there's a few bad apples, everyone needs to be punished.  And if that's your position, be clear about it.  Don't falsely claim the other side thinks that every refugee is a sweetheart.

---

spot on. qman wants to be the straw man king..the strawy game of thrones is in motion.

also @qman - do you think muslimstatistics (with the logo of a blood splattered islamic crescent) is a credible and impartial source?

---

qman said:

Tipote said:

qman said:

Did you forget this part of my link? "Assaults, robberies, and what Germany classes as 'predatory extortion' and 'offenses against personal freedom', including threatening behavior, doubled in 2014 with 36,010 cases, accounting for 18 percent of crime total"

Looks like they're not the innocent little angles you think they are, far from it.

---

Can you show me where at any point I said that these people were all "innocent little angels"? I've said many times that there are criminals in all groups of people.

No I did not miss the assaults, robberies etc. If you read what I wrote, I did actually say that there also many very serious crimes.

My point is that robbing and assaulting people is based on the drive for things like money. attacks on mosques, muslims and refugee centres are crimes of hate.

---

Oh really, it's so nice of to quantify the seriousness of these criminal acts.

---

I was quoting from your source...
dodging a bus fare and rape are of different levels of seriousness.... RIGHT????

Quote:

Guess what?  When you physically and sexually assault a native European, it's NOT based on money, it's based on HATE!!

---

I'm sure that rapes and sexual assaults - to Europeans and non-Europeans - is based on many things. For some it's based on hate, absolutely. As we saw in Cologne, the majority were not refugees, they were Algerians. AND it was Syrian refugees that helped some of the victims escape. The world isnt black and white, qman.

Quote:

What do you think was the motivation for the physical and sexual attacks in Cologne?  It wasn't for monetary gain, it was based on the hatred and jealousy of German natives, your rationalization for this behavior is beyond pathetic, you should be ashamed of yourself.

---

I've never suggested that rape was for monetary gain. Most of the crimes on that night were actually robberies. The rapes and sexual assaults were criminal opportunism. It is your assumption that it is about jealousy. Partly its alcohol, partly its misogyny, partly its a perspective that western women are whores.

What rationalisation am I giving for rape and sexual assault???? Personally, I think its you that should be ashamed of yourself. I assume you are quite elderly and stuck in your ways so I don't hold much hope of that changing. I wonder if you've even any muslim friends or jewish friends or any foreign friends that aren't white Europeans. Your world seems to revolve around white supremacist perspectives at every turn. It's my generation that will face this hateful world and it doesnt need your divisive assumptions. NO one supports crimes of refugees/economic migrants/Europeans or anyone else, no one says they are ok. Unity against this bullshit is the only way but division seems to be your first language.

Quote:

"attacks on mosques, muslims, and refugee centers are crimes of hate"

I agree, why can't you also be unbiased in your approach to this subject?

---

What do you mean? I have repeatedly spoken about how all sides are guilty of aggression, racism, hatred, abuses etc. The point however is that we have to remember that there are voiceless vulnerable people caught in the middle of all this. Power relations and context is important. Many Europeans don't have a voice but compared to Europeans, refugees have NO voice. It is the far right talking of civil war, gas chambers etc.

qman said:

Tipote said:

also @qman - do you think muslimstatistics (with the logo of a blood splattered islamic crescent) is a credible and impartial source?

---

You do realize they used statistics from the Federal Criminal Office?  http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/7470/germany-migrants-crime

---

airclay said:

Bubbles85 said:

Tipote said:

Or those apologising for fascist thugs who attack muslim women in defense of "OUR" women..LOL

---

Tipote said:

Bubbles85 said:

You seem to continually try to disprove the facts, or show them as being incorrectly reported, when these events involving Muslims happen.
Yet when the shoe is on the other foot, you take it as absolute with out a second thought and try to use it as a weapon in your discussion.

---

What facts am I trying to disprove? I said his conclusion and methodology was flawed but he said a lot of accurate things in between his annotations. What am i disproving??

What am i using "as a weapon"?

Are you high bubbles?

---

I wasn't speaking specifically about the documentary, i was speaking in general about the entire discussions revolving around certain Muslims.

I was also pointing out your hipocracy when it comes to the apologetic nature you present toward these Muslims and the fact that you do not extend the same level of thought to native Europeans, who stand up against what they believe, either rightly or wrongly, is the Islamification of their home country's.

We've heard of only one instance of a far right member attacking a Muslim women and you've not shut the fuck up about it since. Yet the rapes, attacks and sexual assaults from the Muslim population in Europe have been endless.
When its a Muslim in the spot light, we must try to "understand" and accept that its due to their "discrimination"

The hipocracy here is what i was pointing out ....

Tipote said:

can you provide those stats please?

---

Come on man, you know as well as i do, that in several European country's, Muslim men now commit a higher number of rapes than any other group. Sweden for example has a 2% Muslim population, yet it's estimated that Muslims commit 77% of all rapes and the women targeted, are predominantly white European.

Tipote said:

If you go to some parts of London, it is sometimes only Orthodox Jewish and i would be certain of some shared views about women and homosexuality to say the least.

---

Tipote said:

What anti-semitiic things have I said, Bubbles? I'm interested to know!

---

I was poking fun at you more than any thing. I've seen countless threads and posts of yours bitching about Jews lol. So to see it again in the context presented here and right after the documentary we're discussing, highlighted some major Anti-Semitism with in the Muslim community's in the UK, was funny

---

that's what I hear when you post this type victim card bullshit. your "hypocrisy" is only your own little hurt feelings as you envision your shared status class becoming backseat citizens. Sorry if your words are fucking transparent as hell.

much like the white chip on his shoulder qman carries around.

---

qman said:

When people are unemployed or working shit unskilled labor, how in the world would anyone expect them to contribute to the tax base?  Do you know what one trip to the hospital can cost?  More taxes than what one "refugee" could pay in a lifetime, never mind all the other social services these people leech off from the native population.

---

Quote:

What do you think illegals do in the US?  The same old shit, welfare, food stamps, public housing, education, criminal justice, and health care, who in the world do you think pays for it?  It's certainly NOT them.

---

Tipote said:

qman said:

Tipote said:

qman said:

Did you forget this part of my link? "Assaults, robberies, and what Germany classes as 'predatory extortion' and 'offenses against personal freedom', including threatening behavior, doubled in 2014 with 36,010 cases, accounting for 18 percent of crime total"

Looks like they're not the innocent little angles you think they are, far from it.

---

Can you show me where at any point I said that these people were all "innocent little angels"? I've said many times that there are criminals in all groups of people.

No I did not miss the assaults, robberies etc. If you read what I wrote, I did actually say that there also many very serious crimes.

My point is that robbing and assaulting people is based on the drive for things like money. attacks on mosques, muslims and refugee centres are crimes of hate.

---

Oh really, it's so nice of to quantify the seriousness of these criminal acts.

---

I was quoting from your source...
dodging a bus fare and rape are of different levels of seriousness.... RIGHT????

Quote:

Guess what?  When you physically and sexually assault a native European, it's NOT based on money, it's based on HATE!!

---

I'm sure that rapes and sexual assaults - to Europeans and non-Europeans - is based on many things. For some it's based on hate, absolutely. As we saw in Cologne, the majority were not refugees, they were Algerians. AND it was Syrian refugees that helped some of the victims escape. The world isnt black and white, qman.

Quote:

What do you think was the motivation for the physical and sexual attacks in Cologne?  It wasn't for monetary gain, it was based on the hatred and jealousy of German natives, your rationalization for this behavior is beyond pathetic, you should be ashamed of yourself.

---

I've never suggested that rape was for monetary gain. Most of the crimes on that night were actually robberies. The rapes and sexual assaults were criminal opportunism. It is your assumption that it is about jealousy. Partly its alcohol, partly its misogyny, partly its a perspective that western women are whores.

What rationalisation am I giving for rape and sexual assault???? Personally, I think its you that should be ashamed of yourself. I assume you are quite elderly and stuck in your ways so I don't hold much hope of that changing. I wonder if you've even any muslim friends or jewish friends or any foreign friends that aren't white Europeans. Your world seems to revolve around white supremacist perspectives at every turn. It's my generation that will face this hateful world and it doesnt need your divisive assumptions. NO one supports crimes of refugees/economic migrants/Europeans or anyone else, no one says they are ok. Unity against this bullshit is the only way but division seems to be your first language.

Quote:

"attacks on mosques, muslims, and refugee centers are crimes of hate"

I agree, why can't you also be unbiased in your approach to this subject?

---

What do you mean? I have repeatedly spoken about how all sides are guilty of aggression, racism, hatred, abuses etc. The point however is that we have to remember that there are voiceless vulnerable people caught in the middle of all this. Power relations and context is important. Many Europeans don't have a voice but compared to Europeans, refugees have NO voice. It is the far right talking of civil war, gas chambers etc.

---

Bubbles85 said:

The dude who popularized the term "Islamophobia" and is the former head of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, has come out and openly admitted that there are some serious issues within our Muslim community's.

---

LOL where would we have been without him?? "popularised the term" lol. racism is racism.

absolutely there are serious concerns within our muslim communities. The mistake you and qman make is that you speak in generalities.

Quote:

That a very large majority do not want to integrate and would rather change our largely tolerant society's to better suit their conservative religious views and instead of acknowledging that fact, you harp on about me, or qman. Its pathetic.

---

Can you show me stats on the "very large majority that do not want to integrate"???? While its true that some don't want to integrate and it's true that Western immigration and integration mechanisms are hugely wanting, this is what I mean by you speaking in generalities because its clearly NOT a "very large majority". Most british muslims are not even that religious. Rather than the islamisation of europe, we are facing the secularisation of islam in Europe but demonisation of muslims globally fuels radicalisation of muslims. Surely we should embrace the secularisation of muslims. I'm currently seeing an agnostic hijabi feminist academic .

Its been shown repeatedly that it is politics, not religion that drives terrorism on the scale we are seeing.

Tipote said:

Bubbles85 said:

I was approached by a group of radical Muslims in Coventry city center just last Saturday afternoon, handing out leaflets and preaching their bull shit, after leaving a bar with a few mates (yes we told them to fuck off) as did pretty much every one else they tried to stop. People in Europe don't want it, yet it is now common place here.

---

oooh wow *swoon*. how impressive of you bubbles. So some muslims were handing out leaflets and you told them to fuck off.
Do you not value freedom of speech then? Sounds like you were the only one being a dick in that situation

---

And here we have what backs up, pretty much every thing I've just said ... I specifically stated that RADICAL Muslims were preaching their BS in the center of town and you play that down, stating "some Muslims" turning it around on me, to make me look like the bad guy.

I'm sorry, are we supposed to just stand and listen to hear how much we're hated in our own country? Fuck that shit ....

I can't even be fucked to answer to the rest of your nonsense. It clearly backs up every thing I've said about you. You're a Muslim apologist and some who quite clearly try's to play down the evil that festers within Islam ....

Tipote said:

qman said:

When people are unemployed or working shit unskilled labor, how in the world would anyone expect them to contribute to the tax base?  Do you know what one trip to the hospital can cost?  More taxes than what one "refugee" could pay in a lifetime, never mind all the other social services these people leech off from the native population.

---

Maybe in the US... but in Europe we dont pay the stupid cost levels you do. That isn't to say it won't cost..but you still havent made the case that refugees can NEVER contribute enough to make up for the extra burden. We are talking long term. Falc pointed out that Germany's unemployment rate is incredibly low. I dont think the lowering of wages is great by any means. There are no doubt some problems from this. But I don't believe they are insurmountable and plus - what i've argued for is that accepting refugees comes with many problems but is the right thing to do on many levels.

Quote:

What do you think illegals do in the US?  The same old shit, welfare, food stamps, public housing, education, criminal justice, and health care, who in the world do you think pays for it?  It's certainly NOT them.

---

the US is certainly exceptional when it comes to poverty traps and cycles of dependency. Its bad in Europe too but not anything like the US.
Yes the tax payer will pay, and eventually it'll be the refugees that are tax payers contributing to the state. You can't seem to accept this is possible. There are refugees with all kinds of level of skill. You assume refugees will only be fit for unskilled labour and that is far from the case.

---