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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #23002402 -

Firstly, I didn't say 'The US', I said 'The West'. Western industrialization is the only reason their oil is worth anything! It's the only reason these countries have money at all. The only reason they can afford to buy weapons from the US.

I am not saying that the justification of the US is a just one. However, I am saying that religion plays a detrimental role in the middle east, and that is undeniable. I am fervently against the US overthrowing governments in the Middle East, but I don't believe it would be a free or safe society in any respect, whether or not we intervene militarily, and that is due to Islam. I am not an 'Islamaphobe'. I have no fear of Islam. Religion in general disgusts me, and Islam to a greater extent than all others.

The only way to get a good man to do bad things is with religion.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


Edited by Bigbadwooof (03/13/16 01:33 PM)

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23002465 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Firstly, I didn't say 'The US', I said 'The West'. Western industrialization is the only reason their oil is worth anything! It's the only reason these countries have money at all. The only reason they can afford to buy weapons from the US.


Yes, i know, i said West and US.
I see your point and youre right. It was BP running the oil fields in Iran, etc etc. But their oil was always going to be worth something. It's mostly just business. Saudi Arabia have also served US geopolitical interests around the Suez Canal etc. 

Quote:
I am not saying that the justification of the US is a just one. However, I am saying that religion plays a detrimental role in the middle east, and that is undeniable.


I agree but its not as clear cut as that. Religion is probably a net negative but its almost impossible to measure. In some cases it does prevent people from terrorism. in some cases it facilitates it.
Quote:
I am fervently against the US overthrowing governments in the Middle East, but I don't believe it would be a free or safe society in any respect, whether or not we intervene militarily, and that is due to Islam. I am not an 'Islamaphobe'. I have no fear of Islam. Religion in general disgusts me, and Islam to a greater extent than all others.


I think its unfair to assume that because of Islam alone that these countries would be restricted or unsafe without interference from outside powers.. if you look at how Egypt and Iran were in the 60s and 70s, women were not covered, attitudes were quite liberal. The trend that we see actually is that with more and more interference from outside, a withdrawal into conservatism, a rejection of Western invasion, occupation, corruption and immorality is a catalyst for clamping down on freedom and security. I even see the trend among British Muslims. Hatred and interference from the outside fuels tribalism and polarisation.
War, invasion, occupation, domination etc are radicalising concepts. Overthrowing Iran because they wanted to nationalise oil has turned people against the US and UK for generations. I think actually that having better relationships with these countries will have a moderating effect. Look at the growth of the support in Iran of the moderates after such brutal American sanctions and an eventual deal brought about by moderates.

The Gulf States should be spoken about separately from the wider Middle East.. though they are changing the wider middle east with their wealth and the consequent spread of their ideology. The Wahabisation of Sunni Islam has been going on for a long time.

Quote:
The only way to get a good man to do bad things is with religion.


I agree but you dont need a religion for that. Or rather you don't need God for that. Capitalism can be a religion with money as it's God. People will always do bad things, ideology and dogma can help that happen more often.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote] * 1
    #23002494 -

Tipote said:
Fair enough.

Bigbadwooof said:
The only way to get a good man to do bad things is with religion.


I agree but you dont need a religion for that. Or rather you don't need God for that. Capitalism can be a religion with money as it's God. People will always do bad things, ideology and dogma can help that happen more often.


Any core ideology that has the ability to create 'true believers' can cause good people to do bad things. This is why 'ends justify the means' arguments are so dangerous. Religion has always been the most effective tool for cultivating this.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe *DELETED* [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #23002966 -

Post deleted by night_shift

Reason for deletion: [delete]

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: night_shift] * 1
    #23003004 -

night_shift said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Any core ideology that has the ability to create 'true believers' can cause good people to do bad things. This is why 'ends justify the means' arguments are so dangerous. Religion has always been the most effective tool for cultivating this.


*cough* nationalism *cough*


Yes, which is why these right wing movements are so dangerous, to get back to the meat of this thread. Right wing politics are belligerently nationalistic. The Nazi's are a great example of this.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23003170 -

Europe or the West in general is in denial of its religiosity. Atheism brings with it its own dogma and revulsion toward religion. but as you both point out, nationalism or other isms can come in a fill that void. Religion is still arguably more dangerous but ultimately its about herd mentality regardless of ism.

I hate that Huntington essay about the "clash of civilisations". It's an extension of nationalism to large swathes of the world.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #23003246 -

Tipote said:
Well said as always, Malkuthian.


I wont take sides in this debate between you and qman but I just want to give one factual observation:  the mere presence of these foreign women seems to generate much division and disagreement among the natives (I know qman is technically not a native Brit, however I am assuming that his attitude is  representative of some Brits).  So my question is, why does Britain continue to import these third-worlders?  And the liberals and the mainstream media keep repeating over and over that these people "enrich" our societies and cultures but I just want to ask, in what ways exactly?

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 1
    #23003701 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Firstly, I didn't say 'The US', I said 'The West'. Western industrialization is the only reason their oil is worth anything! It's the only reason these countries have money at all. The only reason they can afford to buy weapons from the US.



I think this stance may tend to some exceptionalism. It devalues the entire mid east to subservient oil states. Negating the great empires that have existed there and playing into some orientalism in so much as doubting that arab/persian culture could have reached modern status w/o the west.

It's weird tho, we are where we are in time. Western industrialization is a thing and it did happen there first. There's no way to understand civilization otherwise. But surely I'm missing something or there's a better way to phrase this.

:stoned2:


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: airclay]
    #23004039 -

airclay said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Firstly, I didn't say 'The US', I said 'The West'. Western industrialization is the only reason their oil is worth anything! It's the only reason these countries have money at all. The only reason they can afford to buy weapons from the US.



I think this stance may tend to some exceptionalism. It devalues the entire mid east to subservient oil states. Negating the great empires that have existed there and playing into some orientalism in so much as doubting that arab/persian culture could have reached modern status w/o the west.

It's weird tho, we are where we are in time. Western industrialization is a thing and it did happen there first. There's no way to understand civilization otherwise. But surely I'm missing something or there's a better way to phrase this.

:stoned2:


Shit, the middle east was on their way to reaching modern day technology much quicker than the West, several hundred years ago. Religion halted all progress in the middle east. No, I don't think they would have come close to owning F16's and the kind of material wealth (not money, but material goods) they enjoy without the West. Not everything is racist. Call me a culturist. Some cultures are better than others. Western culture is generally better on many fronts.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23004408 -

Might as well tend to my thread! :smile:

German far-right makes historic gains

"NIGHTMARE for Merkel: Leader humiliated as Germany sends a crushing message in polls"

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/652280/Angela-Merkel-CDU-German-elections-defeat-regional-elections-immigration-refugee-policy


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: circastes] * 2
    #23004432 -

We're dealing with our own Nazi party right now.


--------------------
"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #23004678 -

Quote:
I'm gonna guess qman +1ed Starters nonsense..


Nice projection Tip on the "nonsense', as you know full well I have undressed your PeeCee bullshit. Not hard to do given you have a leftie-wanky arts politics degree; which qualifies you for what, exactly?

Your pathetic attempt at posting Euro-terrorism stats ignored casualties/murders of which Islamists in Europe pale all others combined. In fact you stayed the hell away from my modelling on immigrant (African) growth and the massive threat this is to the West, because it's enabled by feel-good leftists like you who fail/refuse to see the big picture.

All up, more proof of zero decency from the invaders who will risk the lives of their most vulnerable to extort entry. There's simply nothing worth defending about them. Which is why the Right is rising to correct this leftist madness.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/652258/Migrants-children-railway-tracks-racist-Europe-re-opens-borders

Migrants lay children across railway tracks demanding ‘racist’ Europe re-opens borders

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/migrant-boat-crisis-human-smugglers-throwing-pregnant-women-and-children-overboard-to-drown-to-force-10290183.html

Migrant boat crisis: Human smugglers 'throwing pregnant women and children overboard to drown to force commercial ships to rescue them'

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: circastes]
    #23005055 -

circastes said:
Might as well tend to my thread! :smile:

German far-right makes historic gains

"NIGHTMARE for Merkel: Leader humiliated as Germany sends a crushing message in polls"

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/652280/Angela-Merkel-CDU-German-elections-defeat-regional-elections-immigration-refugee-policy


Man, that's scary news. Hopefully the German government will stop listening to people like Tipote and Malkuthian before the Nazis come back into power.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #23005111 -

Bigbadwooof said:
airclay said:
Bigbadwooof said:
Firstly, I didn't say 'The US', I said 'The West'. Western industrialization is the only reason their oil is worth anything! It's the only reason these countries have money at all. The only reason they can afford to buy weapons from the US.



I think this stance may tend to some exceptionalism. It devalues the entire mid east to subservient oil states. Negating the great empires that have existed there and playing into some orientalism in so much as doubting that arab/persian culture could have reached modern status w/o the west.

It's weird tho, we are where we are in time. Western industrialization is a thing and it did happen there first. There's no way to understand civilization otherwise. But surely I'm missing something or there's a better way to phrase this.

:stoned2:


Shit, the middle east was on their way to reaching modern day technology much quicker than the West, several hundred years ago. Religion halted all progress in the middle east. No, I don't think they would have come close to owning F16's and the kind of material wealth (not money, but material goods) they enjoy without the West. Not everything is racist. Call me a culturist. Some cultures are better than others. Western culture is generally better on many fronts.


I'm not really trying to call you either. I agree w the premise, even more so w the idea that they wouldn't be so materialistic given the same time. I'm just a nerd and would like to find the best way to speak on or approach it.


--------------------
Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #23005165 -

viktor said:
circastes said:
Might as well tend to my thread! :smile:

German far-right makes historic gains

"NIGHTMARE for Merkel: Leader humiliated as Germany sends a crushing message in polls"

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/652280/Angela-Merkel-CDU-German-elections-defeat-regional-elections-immigration-refugee-policy


Man, that's scary news. Hopefully the German government will stop listening to people like Tipote and Malkuthian before the Nazis come back into power.


that is scary news.

don't worry, the German govt is not listening to me in the first place.

I support that German took large numbers, I don't support exactly how it was done and the space of time in which it happened. It was sloppy at best. I can understand why she will lose her position.

It's kind of funny how you characterise all positions in such a binary way.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Starter] * 1
    #23005175 -

Starter said:
Quote:
I'm gonna guess qman +1ed Starters nonsense..


Nice projection Tip on the "nonsense', as you know full well I have undressed your PeeCee bullshit. Not hard to do given you have a leftie-wanky arts politics degree; which qualifies you for what, exactly?

Your pathetic attempt at posting Euro-terrorism stats ignored casualties/murders of which Islamists in Europe pale all others combined. In fact you stayed the hell away from my modelling on immigrant (African) growth and the massive threat this is to the West, because it's enabled by feel-good leftists like you who fail/refuse to see the big picture.

All up, more proof of zero decency from the invaders who will risk the lives of their most vulnerable to extort entry. There's simply nothing worth defending about them. Which is why the Right is rising to correct this leftist madness.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/652258/Migrants-children-railway-tracks-racist-Europe-re-opens-borders

Migrants lay children across railway tracks demanding ‘racist’ Europe re-opens borders

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/migrant-boat-crisis-human-smugglers-throwing-pregnant-women-and-children-overboard-to-drown-to-force-10290183.html

Migrant boat crisis: Human smugglers 'throwing pregnant women and children overboard to drown to force commercial ships to rescue them'


notice i hardly respond to your comments. they are just full of flames and attempts to belittle. It's kind of like talking to a brick wall. 

Why is such a problem for you that people do Politics degrees? Whats your degree in?
Politics involves the study of history, culture, economics, politics etc etc.

So are you saying you support the rise of the right "to correct this leftist madness"?


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #23005182 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Shit, the middle east was on their way to reaching modern day technology much quicker than the West, several hundred years ago. Religion halted all progress in the middle east. No, I don't think they would have come close to owning F16's and the kind of material wealth (not money, but material goods) they enjoy without the West. Not everything is racist. Call me a culturist. Some cultures are better than others. Western culture is generally better on many fronts.


several hundred years ago? and then religion stopped it?

In Islam's golden age, there were some of the best universities and academics in the world in the Middle East. Academia has always been a rich part of the Islamic tradition.

It's not about culture, there are many reasons why Middle Eastern states might not have developed f-16s etc. economics, geopolitics, colonialism etc all play a part. Also, the middle east is not one culture. While there is a pan-arab identity among some, there is huge diversity among all middle eastern cultures.


--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote] * 3
    #23005289 -

hehehe saw this and it gave me a chuckle. Reminds me of Starter a little bit..

Saying racist things not racist, say racists

Quote:
Racists have claimed that making unashamedly racist statements is definitely not racist, and anyone who accuses them of being racist is a racist.

Referring to all refugees as criminals, scroungers and jihadis is the highest form of patriotism and anyone objecting to the use of such language deserves to be hanged, according to non-racist Simon Williams.

“Lefties shout ‘racist’ to try to stifle the debate about which pest migrants most resemble,” he said.

“Describing migrants as cockroaches or vermin is no more racist than setting fire to the bins outside a mosque.

“And everyone knows that mosques aren’t a race, they’re a building so it can’t be racist.”

Mr Williams went on to highlight the numerous attacks he has suffered at the hands of people who don’t share his views.

“I suffer constant attacks because I’m not afraid to say what I think,” he said.

“The other day I went on the Guardian website to point out that decent dinosaurs weren’t wiped out by an asteroid but by EU freedom of movement rules that led to an intolerable strain being placed on their infrastructure by Eastern European cavemen.

“My post was deleted by a moderator because it didn’t abide by their community standards.

“I just don’t feel safe anymore.”




--------------------
War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: circastes]
    #23005353 -

circastes said:
Might as well tend to my thread! :smile:

German far-right makes historic gains

"NIGHTMARE for Merkel: Leader humiliated as Germany sends a crushing message in polls"

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/652280/Angela-Merkel-CDU-German-elections-defeat-regional-elections-immigration-refugee-policy


Merkel and her gang should look for a exit out of Germany, she made a big mistake in thinking she could fuck over the native German population.

Also, if I was a recent African or Muslim in the EU, I might also look for an exit out of there.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: circastes]
    #23005578 -

circastes said:
Might as well tend to my thread! :smile:

German far-right makes historic gains

"NIGHTMARE for Merkel: Leader humiliated as Germany sends a crushing message in polls"

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/652280/Angela-Merkel-CDU-German-elections-defeat-regional-elections-immigration-refugee-policy


I was just gonna post this. Many of their voters have deflected from Merkels own party, which is no surprise.

Many mainstream political parties in Europe just don't listen to the concerns of the native populations any more. The natives feel as tho they're more interested in immigrants, so they feel like they have no other option but to vote for these kinds of parties.

Merkels digging her own grave.


--------------------
Adolf Hitler - The Greatest Story NEVER Told - Official Trailer

The National Socialist Revolution - THINK DIFFERENT

EUROPA – The Last Battle - The Truth Fears No Investigation

Edited by Bubbles85 (03/14/16 12:59 PM)

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