airclay said:

You're just going to ignore the fact that it takes criminal bonds above and beyond that of the polish bond to make these events possible.

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qman said:

airclay said:

You're just going to ignore the fact that it takes criminal bonds above and beyond that of the polish bond to make these events possible.

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Not if they share cultural norms that aren't considered criminal in nature. The Western culture finds their behavior (underage sex rings) criminal and repulsive, but the large majority of the Muslim cultural doesn't feel the same exact way, that's a reality that you continue to ignore.

Most people in the West think abortion is a acceptable act for women to have performed, the large majority of Muslims think it's a repulsive act. These are cultural bonds specific to those cultures, it has NOTHING to do with criminality, because as we can see "criminality" is relative to each group of people.

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airclay said:

Is it 100% only white females for sure? then it should be investigated as to who the final consumers are and why white females are being targeted for the end consumers.

But to frame it in the manner as it has been presented in this thread generalizes and pushes suspicion and fear based on a shared race/religion rather than being based on known involvement in criminal activity. Effectively demonizing all of that shared race/religion together instead of recognizing the one shared bond of criminality that must be present above all other shared bonds for this to happen in the first place.

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airclay said:

The idea that the Muslim world generally is accepting or supportive of underage sex rings on the basis of being a part of the Muslim world is not only your opinion but an unprovable claim at that. And criminality has everything to do with it as this was an organization operating for thirty plus years on the black market. To say criminality had nothing to do with is willful ignorance at best.

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Bubbles85 said:

airclay said:

Is it 100% only white females for sure? then it should be investigated as to who the final consumers are and why white females are being targeted for the end consumers.

But to frame it in the manner as it has been presented in this thread generalizes and pushes suspicion and fear based on a shared race/religion rather than being based on known involvement in criminal activity. Effectively demonizing all of that shared race/religion together instead of recognizing the one shared bond of criminality that must be present above all other shared bonds for this to happen in the first place.

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Yes, in the UK, the trend seems to be, that when ever a new case like this comes to light, the females targeted, are all ways white.

Nobody is saying that the entire population should be placed under suspicion, but there is clearly a pattern emerging, where this abuse is obviously being focused on race.

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airclay said:

qman said:

airclay said:

You're just going to ignore the fact that it takes criminal bonds above and beyond that of the polish bond to make these events possible.

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Not if they share cultural norms that aren't considered criminal in nature. The Western culture finds their behavior (underage sex rings) criminal and repulsive, but the large majority of the Muslim cultural doesn't feel the same exact way, that's a reality that you continue to ignore.

Most people in the West think abortion is a acceptable act for women to have performed, the large majority of Muslims think it's a repulsive act. These are cultural bonds specific to those cultures, it has NOTHING to do with criminality, because as we can see "criminality" is relative to each group of people.

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To say criminality had nothing to do with is willful ignorance at best.

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qman said:

It's NOT "spin" when the reality is that Muslim men inside of the EU are 100% responsible for these sex rings.

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Bubbles85 said:

The acceptable age of consent in the Muslim world, is around the age of puberty. Most girls start puberty at the age of 11, or 12.

Its not criminality in their eyes. Its just part of their culture.

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qman said:

"Muslims are required to follow the law of host countries"

Thank you Captain Obvious, but we can see they don't far more often than the native population.

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Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_sex_trafficking_gang

In this case- "all were from Muslim background".

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Quote:

"it is a good thing to Westernize these cultures"

They should be Westernized in their homelands, not in the EU at the expense of the native population, how many victims of Muslim crime should there be to try and Westernize a dysfunctional culture?

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Tipote said:

qman said:

"Muslims are required to follow the law of host countries"

Thank you Captain Obvious, but we can see they don't far more often than the native population.

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Evidence? captain obvious? i was making the point that sharia specifically says that this is the case. Perhaps that was obvious to you?
I wasn't saying that people generally need to follow the law because yes that is obvious.

Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rochdale_sex_trafficking_gang

In this case- "all were from Muslim background".

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again, you can maybe make a case about Pakistanis as your link refers to Pakistanis. You are not providing evidence that this is a Muslim thing to create criminal sex rings. You are making the better case that its something about being Pakistani. Perhaps cultural groups are good networking groups?

I know a Muslim/Hindu Kashmiri (ex)drug lord in the UK and I can tell you that his religion doesnt come into it. They hardly even go to mosque or fast or anything.
Its about crime, poverty, and money. Connections based on cultural links allow for criminal networks.

The UK political elite for decades has been involved in criminal sex (including paedophile) rings. The networks are maintained by links between that group.
Not far from where I live is also a Polish drug network. I don't put it down to them being Polish, i put it down to them wanting money.

Quote:

"it is a good thing to Westernize these cultures"

They should be Westernized in their homelands, not in the EU at the expense of the native population, how many victims of Muslim crime should there be to try and Westernize a dysfunctional culture?

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Well thats not the main argument for accepting migrants and refugees, first of all.
secondly, are you supporting the funding to push other countries to change their rules or conventions?

Changing peoples views in our own countries benefits us as well as them.

I dont know how old you are but you seem hugely disconnected to the reality of global migration. It is a fact in this world, we can either cry about it or learn to deal with it the best way we can. You seem to prefer to cry about it and alienate people, as though that helps anything....!

this thread just goes around and around in circles. I dont know why i still come back to it.

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qman said:

"disconnected to the reality of global migration"

I recognize what's happening, just because I don't agree with Western nations being flooded with third world cultures doesn't mean I'm "disconnected".

"It is a fact in this world"

Yes and no, migration is always going to take place, but our disagreements lie to what extent. I don't think anything is inevitable, there can be controlled measures put into place if the will is there, I think it's coming.

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Quote:

"you prefer to cry about it and alienate people"

Pointing out some of the current flaws in the US and EU's immigration policies isn't "crying about it". The US isn't even enforcing the current laws on the books, pointing that fact out is important.

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Quote:

It's not about alienating people, it's about doing what's best for the people in my own homeland, when African American's and Hispanics in the US can't find employment for years, I don't want illegal workers taking their jobs!!  Helping people starts at home, and the disadvantaged people in this country need plenty of help these days, it's a matter of priorities, not alienation.

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Tipote said:

Thats the age of consent in all muslim countries??? Evidence? If you dont mean the entire muslim world then try to be specific please

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Tipote said:

Criminal sex gangs are a no no in Sharia law.

.....

Airclay is right that its more about criminal groups. Criminals do criminal things, none of what happened is allowed under Sharia.

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The Ecstatic said:

Yeah, well it's standard practice in many Christians nations with ages even lower than that.

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Bigbadwooof said:

Tipote said:

Criminal sex gangs are a no no in Sharia law.
.....
Airclay is right that its more about criminal groups. Criminals do criminal things, none of what happened is allowed under Sharia.

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How does Sharia law play into this? There are a million atrocious actions permissible by Sharia law. Muslims have to understand that Sharia law is not the standard they must abide by in the West. They must comply with a much higher standard, which is Western law.

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Bigbadwooof said:

Mohammed himself married an 8 year old, didn't he?

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Tipote said:

The Ecstatic said:

Yeah, well it's standard practice in many Christians nations with ages even lower than that.

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true

and practices like FGM are present in Christian and Muslim communities in Africa. its terrible.

its crazy to learn that some places in the US allow you to marry at 12 with parental consent. WTF?

Bigbadwooof said:

Tipote said:

Criminal sex gangs are a no no in Sharia law.
.....
Airclay is right that its more about criminal groups. Criminals do criminal things, none of what happened is allowed under Sharia.

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How does Sharia law play into this? There are a million atrocious actions permissible by Sharia law. Muslims have to understand that Sharia law is not the standard they must abide by in the West. They must comply with a much higher standard, which is Western law.

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Sharia law comes into this because it is said that muslims commit these crimes. My point is that it is not islamic to cause harm and commit these crimes.
While Islam as all religions put women down, Islam does not allow the crimes that go on in Europe.

In fairness, Sharia is applied in many different ways throughout all Islamic or Muslim-majority states. but the other point is that Sharia says that Muslims must obey the laws of host nations (as long as they are not forced to commit sins). Actually, being religious (as long as its not Wahabi) helps insulate you from crime. I think its interesting to remember that the Paris attackers were second generation, alienated and completely Westernised. They took drugs (one of them was a drug dealer), drank alcohol, watched porn, had sex etc- freedoms they were exposed to from life in the West. This, combined with alienation from French society for not being accepted as vrai French fuels a crisis of identity. they then looked towards islam - which they knew little of, to reject decadence and corruption in themselves and their society, and became born-again wahabi extremists. This comes back to the point about it not being Islam, if anything its about the novice understanding and corruption of Islam. An example is the misunderstanding and manipulation of the term "jihad".

http://islamicsupremecouncil.org/understanding-islam/legal-rulings/5-jihad-a-misunderstood-concept-from-islam.html?start=9

I'm no expert in Islam or Sharia but i'm sure you are right that there are many brutal actions that are permitted by Sharia

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