Shins said:

They're fleeing the conflict in general, which was started by NATO and gulf allies, not Russia.    Russia is saving Syria in spite of America who wants it destroyed.

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Quote:

A fire which broke out at a building planned to house migrants in eastern Germany was greeted with cheers from some onlookers, police say.

The fire in the town of Bautzen in the early hours of Sunday morning destroyed the roof of a former hotel, which was being converted into a migrant shelter.

Police said some of the crowd tried to prevent firefighters from extinguishing the blaze, which destroyed the roof.

The premier of Saxony, Stanislaw Tillich, described them as "criminals".

Police suspect arson. The investigation includes detectives who normally deal with extremist crimes. No-one was hurt.
'Unashamed delight'

Only a few days ago, protesters in another Saxon town, Clausnitz, blocked the arrival of a bus taking migrants to accommodation.

They shouted, "We are the people", the slogan of the 1989 peaceful uprising which led to the fall of the Berlin Wall and the reunification of Germany.

The director of the Clausnitz migrant shelter is a member of the anti-immigrant Alternativ fuer Deutschland (AfD) party.

Police in Bautzen said many in the crowd watched the fire and commented with "unashamed delight". Two drunken men were arrested after they refused to leave the scene.

The converted hotel was supposed to house 300 migrants.

In a further sign of anti-migrant sentiment, police in the Brandenburg region are investigating the distribution of leaflets urging "absolute resistance" against "foreigner invasion".

The leaflets, put through letterboxes in the town of Nauen, are the suspected work of neo-Nazis. They also give instructions on making firebombs and using explosives.

etc etc

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Tipote said:

Shins said:

They're fleeing the conflict in general, which was started by NATO and gulf allies, not Russia.    Russia is saving Syria in spite of America who wants it destroyed.

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I agree that they are fleeing conflict in general but Russia is doing a lot lately!! They bombed a MSF hospital a few days ago and there have been many many reports of strikes on civilian areas with many civilian deaths.

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Tipote said:

Bubbles85 said:

Tipote said:

I have suspicions that hostile universe is a secret muslim. Maybe we can get him sent to gitmo.

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I thought you were the secret Muslim brother? Actually, not really that secret, since you admit to going to mosque to pray and have stated that you have many Muslims in you're family?

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I've also said that my family is mainly Catholic and that there is a Jewish part of my family now through marriage and conversion.
I dont like religions (generally speaking) but I think they have in them a deeply buried truth about life that maybe 10% of the world actually sees. To me religions are different interpretatons of the same thing. You can also find this truth from tripping balls on mushrooms, its far from unique to religion. In fact, hallucinogens probably account for much of the world's religious history.

I go to any place of worship I'm invited to.  So far its been churches, mosques and a couple of hindu temples. If that makes me a secret muslim then I'm cool with that.

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If you go to mosque to pray, i would say that you probably are a Muslim

Yeah, mushrooms are definitely one of the most spiritually uplifting things known to man.
I would never link that spirituality to religion personally, because I'm not religious obviously, but i have definitely had past trips, that have made me question what the fuck reality really is.

Psychedlics fucking rock. Fuck religion, every one should just eat shrooms

Quote:

If you go to mosque to pray, i would say that you probably are a Muslim

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Shins said:

I read turkey clearly bombed the hospital then blamed Russia.

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Bubbles85 said:

Psychedlics fucking rock. Fuck religion, every one should just eat shrooms

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Shins said:

The issue is that Russia considers people "terrorists" who America considers "freedom fighters" or "moderate rebels"  and is fighting them at the request of security agreements with Assad.  Russia basically considers anyone violently opposing the Syrian government to be terrorists.

America wants Bashar Al Assad gone.  ISIS is basically what they want to replace The Assad government with.  Russia is putting it's foot down.

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Shins said:

The Ecstatic said:

even personal faith is crap.

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Do you have faith that you can stand up and walk?

Why us that crap?

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Shins said:

Do you have faith that you can stand up and walk?

Why us that crap?

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WAN said:

Tipote said:

WAN said:

Tipote said:

I pay my taxes and in a world where we only hope that our governments represent us, I expect my government to do the right thing with my tax money. Naive, i know.

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No.  Governments are not supposed to be doing the "right thing" with our tax money.  Their priority should always be about their citizens.  This is their duty.

Another issue I have with your sentiment is that there is no way to agree on what constitutes the "right thing".  People have different ideas for it.  For example, you think that helping refugees is the "right thing", but what if I think that rescuing animals in the labs all around the world is the "right thing". And I am not just saying it to be disagreeable--I actually do care about animals very deeply.  So right away you can see that we would be at an impasse.  And who should the government listen to?  Wouldn't it be better for our governments to focus on serving their people, which is something that everybody agrees on?

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The priority is to represent its citizens. Many of whom are saying we should accept refugees and fund/support the organisations looking after refugees in the region so they significantly slow down the influx of people into other countries.

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So there are citizens who want to help refugees and who demand that their government do so.  But what about the will of people who DONT want to help refugees?  Should they just be ignored?  They have their own will that also should be respected and represented by their government.  So who/which side should the government listen to?

The way I see it, people who want to help refugees should do so through some type of voluntary, non-governmental organization.  If they want to help refugees, they can take money from out of their own pockets.  They shouldn't hijack the political process to suit their own ends (referring to the helping of refugees).  Remember, there are people who are against helping refugees and these people and their voices should be taken into account, too.

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Bigbadwooof said:

Shins said:

The Ecstatic said:

even personal faith is crap.

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Do you have faith that you can stand up and walk?

Why us that crap?

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i'm sorry Shin, but you've proven that, you too, rely on the orthodox to get you through life.

qman said:

I will put it this way, there are very few Tip's walking around the EU today.

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segregate 'em! ya! KILL'IM ALL! POLLUTION! COCKROACHES!



GET'IM ALL!!

Shins said:

Uuum no.

#1 there are limits to our ability to reason and think critically, we are not omnipotent.

#2 faith does NOT necessarily need to be based on irrationality.

I have faith that the sun will rise tomorrow.  No amount of critical thinking can absolutely gruantee it will, or guarantee anything at all. (See;the problem of induction)  faith is literally a part of every single moment of our lives.  You have faith in your knowledge and ability to reason....  again faith is not inherently illogical.  It CAN be, but us not always

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qman said:

The vast majority of EU citizens do NOT want more African's and Muslims in their countries, I don't buy the surveys which suggest otherwise. Either way, even the few that wanted to take in "refugees" have already changed their minds after seeing what is now happening to their towns and cities.

The governments forced this crazy policy down the EU citizens throats without their concern, after seeing the non-protests the leaders have already had a change of heart.

I will put it this way, there are very few Tip's walking around the EU today.

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Almost everyone I know is ok with it. I've only seen 1 survey on this and it would be interesting to see some more. Have you seen some? What do you know of what EU citizens want? Have you even been to Europe?

My impression is that generally people are against completely uncontrolled immigration but are fine with citizens who integrate and that generally they would support refugees. When things like Cologne and the Paris attacks happen, the opinion probably changes quite quickly. And regardless of those events, refugee numbers are certainly seen as far too many in such a short space of time but I would say people generally are not against taking refugees.

People in the US I think have said in the majority that they shouldnt accept refugees. or that a third of people want refugees.

Its important to remember the history too. The US hated catholic immigration, they hated irish immigration, they hated Jewish immigration.

There were hundreds if not thousands of Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany denied entry and opinion polls said then that I think it was 2/3 who said NO. Many of those refugees were turned back and some of those ended up in the gas chambres. I'm not saying that Syrians are going to gas chambers exactly but that they are fleeing death from war and that even if its temporary, they should be given protection.

Quote:

Some 57% of people in the UK are in favour of the status quo, or the government taking fewer refugees from Syria and Libya, a poll suggests.

Forty per cent said the UK should take in more.

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Quote:

British and American public opinion towards refugees has hardened following the terrorist attacks in Paris. More than four in ten (44%) Britons now believe that the UK should close its borders to refugees entirely, up five points since October, according to new research by Ipsos Mori.

The view is shared by nearly one in two (48%) Americans, up two points compared with last month.

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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/20/syrian-refugees-public-opinion-border-security


https://yougov.co.uk/news/2015/11/18/brits-less-accepting-syrian-refugees-wake-paris-at/

These polls tend to suggest a majority don't want more. A lot of the polling questions have weird wording..
It suggests people arent against taking refugees but not such vast numbers in such a short space of time.

its late here, i'll look at it another time.

clearly opinions are very mixed and increasingly negative. but the positive should be represented regardless. Thats what compromise and politics is.

Enlil said:

Shins said:

Do you have faith that you can stand up and walk?

Why us that crap?

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Sounds like you don't understand the meaning of faith.  Being confident that one can stand up and walk isn't faith.  That is an evidence-based belief.  Faith is the belief in something despite a complete lack of evidence.

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Quote:

Simple Definition of faith. : strong belief or trust in someone or something. 

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