Auto-SummaryThis forum post is a heated debate about the EU's refugee policy and its implications. Key points include:
1. Disagreement over the acceptance of refugees, with one user claiming it's a liberal policy and another defending the necessity of sharing the burden.
2. Criticism of the EU's integration efforts, with claims that immigrants often form separate communities and fail to assimilate.
3. The far-right rise is attributed to contradictory liberal policies, rather than just refugee issues.
4. Germany is emphasized as the backbone of the EU, with Greece criticized for exacerbating the crisis by funneling refugees north.
5. The importance of proper processing centers and border controls is stressed to prevent further vulnerabilities in the EU.
The post showcases strong opinions and a lack of compromise, making it a contentious read for those interested in European politics and refugee policies.
Tipote said:
so you cant back up your statement? I'm asking you for one statement in the past that you have made supporting the acceptance of genuine refugees into the EU.
I don't need to back up what I know I've all ready said just to appease you. I know what I've said. Maybe you should look through my posts for you're self and prove me wrong.
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Yes there is a big difference between 70% and 80%
While a lack of gender balance in the population is not a good and we can certainly agree its not good, we can also try to understand why the statistics are like this. I think we can all understand that it is men in the family who are more likely to have any qualifications, they are more likely to get a job, and they are more likely to be able to survive the journey whether by land or sea. Any study showing the gender imbalances also concede that imbalances may in time be corrected when families are reunited.
 Says a lack of gender imbalance is not a good thing amongst these people, then true to Liberal form, tries to justify it 
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I never made that statement. I was suggesting that since your 60% figure came from a quote that was talking about the present moment, it is not representative of the entire influx.
I don't ever recall reading what the EU commissioner stated as reflecting the present. He was clearly talking about the entire situation as a whole.
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No.. thats not what we were agreeing to!!
If you are saying that accepting refugees is a liberal policy, thats fine but i think its inaccurate. It is a policy that governments on the left, right and centre have signed up to. Most importantly, is it not the "route cause of this mess". The root cause of this mess is
No thats not what I'm saying. Its clearly not a Liberal policy. Most people on he right advocate the same.
Again, you continually fixate the entire situation on "refugees" when 60% of the people that have come in to the EU illegally, do not qualify to apply for asylum.
It is open door immigration policy that has allowed these people in, which is guided through and through by Liberal ideology. So why do you not agree, that, that is the route cause of this mess? when clearly it is.
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You really undervalue the significance of words when you say that immigration is ethnic cleansing. population is increasing, no decreasing. Sure the proportions are changing but that does not constitute ethnic cleansing. You do a disservice to those who do face ethnic cleansing by reducing it to such silliness.
I never said that immigration is ethnic cleansing, again in Liberal fantasy land, you interpret my words to imply what you wish them to imply, to make my statements seem wrong and yours to seem just.
I said that a type of ethnic cleansing takes place. When immigrants of different cultures and beliefs are allowed to poor in to foreign nations in mass numbers. They take over entire areas, that become inhabited by only there populace. The immigrants move in and the native population moves out. That is ethnic cleaning, whether you like it or not.
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as I've said a million times, integration is a relationship, it takes 2 to tango and all that. The country needs to make an effort and the immigrant needs to make an effort. Yes there are cases where one side doesn't or both sides don't make an effort.
Again this is you living in some type of fairy tale land about what could or should be. Instead of actually looking at the situation for what it is. Its all well and good saying "it takes two, both side should make an effort" but the truth is that doesn't happen.
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When coming to strange new country, it is comforting to have security and familiarity. That is completely understandable. When I am in the US, i gravitate towards groups of French and English people. Thats completely reasonable.
Again, this is you simply trying to justify why these people set up there own community's, isolated from the rest of the country. 90% of what you say contradicts its self. You say these people can assimilate and integrate, whilst at the same time trying to justify why they dont. It's just idiocy.
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If Obama invades Syria, I'm more likely going to say that the US invaded Syria rather than Obama or the American people. See the difference?
Yes many Germans are against what Merkel has done. Many also support her even though admittedly support is waning.
I have previously spoken of a democratic deficit and disenfranchisement within nations and within supranational bodies like the EU. This has had its part to play in the rise of the far right, as well as the rise of the far left. Polarisation due to all governments whether they say they are left or right wing following the same policies and not representing their citizens.
No, what is giving rise to the far right in Europe, is the complete and utter contradictory nature of Liberal ideology. Its astonishing how so much of what Liberals identify with, contradicts its self on so many levels.
Equal right for women and filling the EU with misogynists, who are then defended when they rape is a perfect example of that. This is what is giving rise to the far right.
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Are you fucking kidding me? Germany IS the EU!! The Eurozone would collapse without Germany.
Yes i imagine Schengen is dead all the while the crisis continues.
What the fuck are YOU talking about? Did i state that Germany should be kicked out of the EU? No. Maybe you should read my post again properly. I was referring to Greece. I clearly stated Greece several times.
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Having poor people does not absolve us from moral responsibilities concerning refugees. Genuine refugees will be accepted, that is right.
Many other countries are taken many times more than Europe as a whole. Lebanon's population is 25% refugee. The influx we are facing now is 0.1% of the EU population. Every country in the world should share the burden, it is not the fault of Syrian civilians that they are refugees. Richer countries have more ability to help. It is in our interests too. If we just think we can isolate/insulate ourselves from it, we are mistaken. Even if we kept refugees stuck in countries that were already filled to capacity like Lebanon, what happens then when Lebanon implodes? Failed states only make the crisis even worse. It is in the West's interest to dilute the crisis as much as possible. Spreading it out and sharing responsibility is the best way of doing that.
Why do you constantly fixate this on refugees? Its getting fucking boring now dude. Its just an easy scape goat for you, to try to justify this entire fucking mess. "Oh the poor refugees" Lets cheer them on and help them in
Refugees as I've stated on several occasions, should be applying for asylum in the first country of safety. Not traveling though countless country's and thousands of miles, just to get to the richest, where the hand outs are plentiful. There motivated by what they believe they will be given and material gain, not safety.
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As i said above, concentrating the problem only intensifies it. There needs to be proper processing centres throughout Europe. Greece being turned into a refugee camp will probably not receive the funding it needs to function properly. If things fail, what do you think Greece will do to stop refugees traveling north? who says they will be able to control the borders? People smugglers will make more money as more obstacles fall into place.
Bringing Greece to the point of failure is not a good option, it creates greater vulnerabilities for the whole of the EU.
It makes no difference what you've said. Greece is skating on thin fucking ice. As i said its been nothing but a burden since it joined the EU and it has purposely shipped these people North to try to save its own broke down ass. They should be kicked out of the EU and tough boarder controls should be put in place on its Northern boarder.
Oh and just for the record, yes i do know some Muslims. I am good friends with a muslim through my work, who came here as a child in the 1950's, when immigration was small and people integrated. He feels exactly them same way i do, regarding the mess of mass migrations, of today. He has even just moved out of an area of the city, that has been over run by modern day mass migrants, to live in a predominately native British area 
Edited by Bubbles85 (01/30/16 06:52 AM)
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