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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bubbles85]
    #22838779 -

The difference is that the vast majority of Poles integrate, while the vast majority of Muslims do not.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #22838811 -

evidence?


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof] * 2
    #22838824 -

Bigbadwooof said:
If you feel that the folly of the left, regarding immigration, is a justification for every right wing ideal, then you have been swept up by the false dichotomy, which generalizes a vast array of socioeconomic issues into a false political dichotomy. The right has been wrong about a slew of things. That doesn't mean they are wrong about everything. The left has been right about a LOT of things. That doesn't mean they are right about everything :wink:



1,000,000 x :yesnod:


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Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman] * 2
    #22838825 -

qman said:
You don't think assimilation is very important for the proper functioning of "cultural diversity", I disagree.


i don't think people NEED to assimilate in a free country.

not what you said.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #22839114 -

Tipote said:
evidence?


Just look around. If you don't know that Poles integrate better than Muslims in Britain then you know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about.

I have a question for you. The obligations of rich countries to refugees - how far does it extend? Would you be happy for European countries to become 50%+ refugee or descendants of refugees? Why or why not?


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor] * 1
    #22839145 -

lol, just look around there's evidence everywhere man.

where's that comic akira posted for anecdotal evidence?

I don't disagree that poles would "assimilate" to the uk quicker than mid east refugees but that's like saying this dog and this other type of dog will get along fine together but this dog and cats will never work. The culture is a lot closer to begin with.

And also you need to provide evidence that's not common sensical or anecdotal.


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Give no fucks, take no orders, smash the prisons and the borders. Circle that A motherfucker!

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: akira_akuma]
    #22839161 -

akira_akuma said:
qman said:
You don't think assimilation is very important for the proper functioning of "cultural diversity", I disagree.


i don't think people NEED to assimilate in a free country.



And how's that line of reasoning been working for Muslims inside of the EU?  NOT GOOD.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #22839164 -

dichotomy. :shrug:

not all Muslims are trouble makers.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #22839169 -

qman said:
Depends on how one defines "refugee" status. We can see that coming from Syria or Iraq does NOT automatically make that person a "refugee" according to the EU.


The term refugee has already been defined, so that isn't too difficult. A person who is in immediate danger, and is seeking asylum.


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"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22839178 -

seeing as it is a status that must be granted...you've both got a point.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22839225 -

Bigbadwooof said:
qman said:
Depends on how one defines "refugee" status. We can see that coming from Syria or Iraq does NOT automatically make that person a "refugee" according to the EU.


The term refugee has already been defined, so that isn't too difficult. A person who is in immediate danger, and is seeking asylum.


That's a very difficult burden to meet in my opinion, either way, it's given authorities reason to stop the flow and start the deportation process as most can't meet that definition.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: qman]
    #22839235 -

qman said:
Bigbadwooof said:
qman said:
Depends on how one defines "refugee" status. We can see that coming from Syria or Iraq does NOT automatically make that person a "refugee" according to the EU.


The term refugee has already been defined, so that isn't too difficult. A person who is in immediate danger, and is seeking asylum.


That's a very difficult burden to meet in my opinion, either way, it's given authorities reason to stop the flow and start the deportation process as most can't meet that definition.


Sure, it's difficult to deport 80,000 people too lol! I'm sure many will slip by, but it doesn't make any sense to open up unlimited and unwarranted immigration. That is just not the world we live in in this day and age, though it may be the case in the distant future. I'm not a huge fan of boarders and nations in general, but that is the world we live in, and structural changes are necessary, throughout the world, before we can even pretend that limitless immigration is possible.


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"It is no measure of good health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society," - Jiddu Krishnamurti
FARTS
"No my dog won't bite you, tho it had the right to. You ought to give him credit, cuz he knows I woulda let him" - Modest Mouse (And Wooof!)
Every one of you should see this video.


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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: airclay]
    #22839303 -

airclay said:
I don't disagree that poles would "assimilate" to the uk quicker than mid east refugees but that's like saying this dog and this other type of dog will get along fine together but this dog and cats will never work. The culture is a lot closer to begin with.


Yeah and just as I wouldn't chuck a cat in with a room full of dogs so I don't think mass Muslim immigration to the West is going to achieve anything of value.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #22839317 -

viktor said:
Yeah and just as I wouldn't chuck a cat in with a room full of dogs so I don't think mass Muslim immigration to the West is going to achieve anything of value.


you got it backwards we don't put aggressive dogs into a room of tame cats

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #22839712 -

viktor said:
Tipote said:
evidence?


Just look around. If you don't know that Poles integrate better than Muslims in Britain then you know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about.



lol "just look around". sounds conclusive!!

Poles probably integrate faster but its not clear cut. I've met refugees that speak better English than some Poles who've been in the UK a while. I've also come across well established Polish drug gangs not far from me. I've seen Poles sexually harass women. I've also seen many very well integrated Poles. Many who have married British people and build lives here. The vast majority of Poles and Muslims integrate with no problems.

when you say "look around", that speaks more about the appearance of things. You might see muslim women with hijabs, it doesnt mean that they are less integrated. Muslims happen to be a group that is certainly more visible. How can you notice a Pole just from looking? 

No group of people, including a religion with followers in over 70 countries in the world, is completely uniform.

What is happening in a lot of the discussions on this entire forum is "othering" or as airclay mentioned, "orientalism". By making an entire group seem like they are incompatible with the West, with some dehumanising them hugely, we reinforce the current dangerous narratives. It's basic human psychology of insider/outsider relations. This is what is causing the rift in Europe.

Quote:
I have a question for you. The obligations of rich countries to refugees - how far does it extend? Would you be happy for European countries to become 50%+ refugee or descendants of refugees? Why or why not?


How far do obligations extend? Well, to me its a moral issue. All the world should share the burden. Perhaps it will serve as incentive to actually bring peace to the middle east so that people move back. For those that assume it can never be prosperous because of the people, how is that not "othering"?

I think you make extreme hypotheticals by asking about whether i am in favour of Europe to be 50% refugee. Its not going to happen. the current refugee influx is somekind like 0.1% of the EU population. Even if every Syrian on earth was in Europe, it would still be under 5% of the EU population. I'm not in favour of continuing to fuck up the world and then accept all their refugees, I support the idea of not fucking up Africa and the Middle East. Even buying a mobile phone in the West is fuelling war. FACT (The Congo)


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #22839714 -

this is quite a old video but i thought its kind of relevant in this thread.

some poetry, bitches.



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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Tipote]
    #22839870 -

The moral values of Islam are not compatible with those of liberal Europe. This is a fact. It is not 'othering'.

Nowhere, ever, in the history of the world, has a mass influx of Muslims had peaceful consequences. Never, ever, ever.

There is no moral obligation for Westerners to destroy their own countries because of war in the Middle East.


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"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #22839893 -

Quote:
There is no moral obligation for Westerners to destroy their own countries because of war in the Middle East.


people never tire of their slippery slopes.

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: viktor]
    #22839980 -

viktor said:
The moral values of Islam are not compatible with those of liberal Europe. This is a fact. It is not 'othering'.


Evidence? This is not true. It is not a fact. It is othering.

Quote:
Nowhere, ever, in the history of the world, has a mass influx of Muslims had peaceful consequences. Never, ever, ever.


same could be said of any influx of people. Europeans going into the Middle east too. We have native Muslims in Europe. In Macedonia you have Muslims and Christians living together in a democratic secular state. Not all muslims are the same, just as no one is the same.

Quote:
There is no moral obligation for Westerners to destroy their own countries because of war in the Middle East.


You can't isolate yourself from the effects of war. Our countries directly fuel these conflicts and should play a part, along with every country in a fair and reasonable way to resettle these people. If our countries then fuel the conditions for peace, muslim and christian syrians will get to move back to Syria. With it, they will bring up maybe a few Westernised and Western educated generations of Muslims to bring the "first world" (i hate these outdated terms) to the middle east - just as it is already in Israel. 20% of Israel is Palestinian Muslim or Christian/Israeli Arab, they live in a secular "democracy" (ethnocracy)at "first world" standards...except the fact they don't have as many rights as the Jewish Israelis. 

Its your assumption that it would destroy our countries.. which takes as back to "othering". dehumanisation.


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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength

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Re: Rise of the far-right in France and Europe [Re: Bigbadwooof]
    #22840015 -

Bigbadwooof said:
Quote:
* Anyone who says the word 'libtard' is a fucking idiot.


Ah, bandy the lib’tard word around and it flushes the said to the surface. :laugh:

Quote:
* Obviously, you're not qualified to summarize a 70 page discussion on the subject.


And you are to know otherwise?

Quote:
* It would appear that the problem is being solved as quickly as it arose.


It is?

Even the pitifully small proportion they want to deport out of the mass influx will not go quietly. It’s as plain as the day is long the lib’tards will show up to fight the police/military in support of the interlopers. I have cited in this thread – with a video – how this has happened in Australia. Do you seriously think that won’t happen in Europe? It was the same deluded German leftie cunts who clapped and cheered these invaders. The problem is far from being "resolved quickly." :rolleyes:



Quote:
If you feel that the folly of the left, regarding immigration, is a justification for every right wing ideal, then you have been swept up by the false dichotomy, which generalizes a vast array of socioeconomic issues into a false political dichotomy.


It was the Left who enabled an invasion of boats to Australia by their retarded policies. It is the Right who righted the problem. Whereas the Left had left the problems to manifest. Similarly this is the same for Europe where Leftist emotive bullshit of ‘we must save them’ kicks in and trumps over logic.

Quote:
The right has been wrong about a slew of things. That doesn't mean they are wrong about everything. The left has been right about a LOT of things. That doesn't mean they are right about everything :wink:


Nice spin – cite the evidence here! You can’t, because Europe has been invaded by no end of Islamic invaders by lovie-dovie Leftist bullshit and all you can do is squirm and defend that with pitiful spin.

Quote:
Taking refugees WAS in fact the right thing to do. Taking economic immigrants was not. It is being resolved. Unbundle your panties, and quit fucking crying about it.


If they’re refugees then their first safe country of entry is sufficient. Instead they trekked through no end of countries to get their grubby hands on the generous welfare of the Western/Northern European nations. They are not refugees. They’re economic parasites.

Quote:
I find it hilarious that right-wingers hate educated people so much. It really says a lot about where we are in the world today.


I have pointed out the valueless so called education i.e. arts based piffle. You think that’s real education?

Real education is medicine, science/math and engineering. Yes, what actually value adds to our technology and development. Whereas nonsense like politics, gender studies and womens’ studies does what, exactly? My background (and for years) is science/geospatial/programing. Are you suggesting the ‘right-wingers’ have no education and therefore “hate educated people”?

I will pose these questions to you and they’re relevant to this thread, since no end of the invaders have come from Africa. In 1950 the African population was 228,902,000. In 2015 it was 1,186,178,000 (Source: http://esa.un.org/unpd/wpp/Download/Standard/Population/ : File: WPP2015_POP_F01_1_TOTAL_POPULATION_BOTH_SEXES.XLS).

Can you tell me:
1.) what their percentage of growth is over the said time-series?
2.) their intrinsic growth?
3.) how many can decant infinitum to Europe per year without lowering the source population?

I know you can’t – you don’t even understand (esp. Q3) what this even means let alone the implications. And that’s the point. The only people qualified to address this issue by informing policy are scientists/engineers, not arts “educated” lib’tards and their emotive BS – e.g. the leftist twits I see in this thread.


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Convert Metric and Imperial.

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