Shins said:

airclay said:

jesus fuck I can't help it. Shins is arguing against almost every history book that exist right now. And we're the ones using "leftist doublespeak".

You do realize your stance here is in direct opposition of the works of every anarchist movement since the late 1700's right?

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No its not.  You are misinterpreting anarchism. 

Like I said.  Private co-ops still exist under the umbrella of a national right wing economy.

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Quote:

Anarchist extremism in the U.S. encompasses a variety of ideologies, including anti-capitalism, anti-globalism, and anti-urbanization. There’s also “green anarchy,” an element of anarchist extremism mixed with environmental extremism. The extremists are loosely organized, with no central leadership—although they occasionally demonstrate limited ability to mobilize themselves.

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Bigbadwooof said:

Shins knows more than anyone. He is the ultimate authority on all things related to economics. Take your fancy pants books and history and SHOVE IT! You're playing mind tricks, like leftists always do!

He has a decade of 'studying' under his belt. Stefan Molyneux will tell you!

Shins knows better than every history book, economics book, University statistics, editorial, and wikipedia. By the way, Capitalism has NOTHING to do with Capitalists capitalizing on capital, and 'means of production' = teh human labor!. Private property=your personal effects.

Sorry Airclay, you're a fool.

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Tipote said:

qman said:

"reason why so many men are arriving...more likely to get a job"

Right away, Greece is in the middle of a economic depression and these guys are going to get jobs, not likely.

Europe is now entering economic recession and there are going to be massive job losses, it's time to send the "refugees" back in the other direction.

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more likely than in Syria. What do you expect them to do in Syria? They won't stay in greece. Refugees aren't just coming to Europe, they are going everywhere.

I know you call it white guilt but if your countries have fuelled a war, your governments can't just absolve themselves of responsibility when the consequences of war affect them. Even if our governments had nothing to do with it at all, there is an obligation to help. Just as you would justify running over protesters for traffic jams, you would support denying sanctuary to those fleeing war and daesh because of economics?

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airclay said:

Bigbadwooof said:

Shins knows more than anyone. He is the ultimate authority on all things related to economics. Take your fancy pants books and history and SHOVE IT! You're playing mind tricks, like leftists always do!

He has a decade of 'studying' under his belt. Stefan Molyneux will tell you!

Shins knows better than every history book, economics book, University statistics, editorial, and wikipedia. By the way, Capitalism has NOTHING to do with Capitalists capitalizing on capital, and 'means of production' = teh human labor!. Private property=your personal effects.

Sorry Airclay, you're a fool.

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dude I cannot help but to keep pushing this button, I'm smoking jays n baking goods this afternoon and have left this tab open. I cant help it, I know this makes me a whole different fool, but I'm ok w that rn.

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Tipote said:

what ways would you suggest would be most helpful in helping the refugees?

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Bigbadwooof said:

You're playing mind tricks, like leftists always do!

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airclay said:

Bigbadwooof said:

You're playing mind tricks, like leftists always do!

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this just ran across my mind but Leftist Mind Tricks makes for a great band name

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Bigbadwooof said:

Shins said:

airclay said:

jesus fuck I can't help it. Shins is arguing against almost every history book that exist right now. And we're the ones using "leftist doublespeak".

You do realize your stance here is in direct opposition of the works of every anarchist movement since the late 1700's right?

---

No its not.  You are misinterpreting anarchism. 

Like I said.  Private co-ops still exist under the umbrella of a national right wing economy.

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Would you argue that cooperatives are not collectivist institutions in nature?

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please help us understand what collectivism is then if not a principal current of anarchism that is inherently opposed to private organizing within the collective.

Quote:

Collectivism has been used to refer to a diverse range of political and economic positions, including nationalism, direct democracy, representative democracy, monarchy, and communism. Collectivism does not need a government or political system to exist (another example of that would be a religious organization that stresses "group goals" within it that is not backed by a government like American or Canadian society), but it can also exist within a political system rather than simply "on the ground". Primarily, Collectivism describes how groups orient themselves naturally within a society.
Collectivism can be typified as "horizontal collectivism", wherein equality is emphasized and people engage in sharing and cooperation, or "vertical collectivism", wherein hierarchy is emphasized and people submit to specific authorities.[1] Horizontal collectivism is based on the assumption that each individual is more or less equal, while vertical collectivism assumes that individuals are fundamentally different from each other.[2] Social anarchist Alexander Berkman, who was a horizontal collectivist, argued that equality does not imply a lack of unique individuality, but an equal amount of freedom and equal opportunity to develop one's own skills and talents.
Horizontal collectivists tend to favor democratic decision-making, while vertical collectivists believe in a more strict chain of command. Horizontal collectivism stresses common goals, interdependence and sociability. Vertical collectivism stresses the integrity of the in-group (e.g. the family or the nation, for example), expects individuals to sacrifice themselves for the in-group if necessary, and promotes competition between different in-groups.[2]

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Shins said:

Bigbadwooof said:

Shins said:

airclay said:

jesus fuck I can't help it. Shins is arguing against almost every history book that exist right now. And we're the ones using "leftist doublespeak".

You do realize your stance here is in direct opposition of the works of every anarchist movement since the late 1700's right?

---

No its not.  You are misinterpreting anarchism. 

Like I said.  Private co-ops still exist under the umbrella of a national right wing economy.

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Would you argue that cooperatives are not collectivist institutions in nature?

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No, of course they are, but in anarchy they exist as private,  voluntary organizations, not national political systems.

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Tipote said:

I heard of some interesting examples in South America of worker coops, ill see if i can remember the names...

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Shins said:

Yes voluntary is the key.  Anarchy is fundamentally about non-agression, if you use force against another, you are claiming authority over them.

The main reason national "left-anarchy" cannot exist is because you can never get every single person to join the national co-op voluntarily. ;you would need an authoritarian government to force everyone to join whether they do it voluntarily or not.  That is not anarchy any longer.

Voluntary trade and association is the keystone of free markets and right wing economics. A market based on completely voluntary trade is the right wing extreme in economics (on a nation wide scale) 

With collectivism on a national scale, not everyone will voluntarily want to join.  National collectivism requires an authoritarian state to enforce everyone into the collective who do not join by free choice.  That is no longer anarchy.

"National Left anarchism" and "national stateless communism are complete myths, works of fiction.  They do not logically make any sense.  You cannot force everyone to join a national collective without an authoritarian state.  That is not anarchism.

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Quote:

Recently a group of anarcho-environmentalists in Turkey and another in Spain, as well as anarcho-environmentalists from around the world together were added to the United Liberation Forces (BOG) "Birleşik Özgürlük Güçleri" of Kobane (Rojava), forming an internationalist front of anarchist and communist combatants.

They made a call not only for anarchists of various trends from around the world, but also for libertarians, environmentalists and anti-capitalists to join the fight and support this social revolution. Each with its language and color, through self-organization and solidarity, mobilizing in rebellion.

The anarchist guerrilla pledged to continue supporting the defense of Kobane and Rojava as a whole, as well as help in the reconstruction of communal life in the newly liberated areas.

The theorist that gave rise to "Democratic Confederalism", the revolutionary proposal currently being deployed in Rojava, Murray Bookchin, was a famous environmentalist very close to anarchist ideals, who wrote about "Libertarian Municipalism".

Original article (written in Portuguese) plus additional photos can be viewed here:
http://jornalbandeirapreta.noblogs.org/?p=57

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Let me know when you're ready to take your foot out your mouth.