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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #20069138 -

... from your standpoint and that shared by people with similar ideological leanings.

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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: psi]
    #20069227 -

ALright, I need to clear a little thing up because I have a strange feeling you guys have the wrong idea of rent control.


When a room or apartment is empty and you are looking for a tenant, you can set your rent at whatever amount you choose. 1$ a month or 10000$ a month. Its your choice.

Then again, if you want to rent the place, you gotta reasonable depending on the quality of your real estate.

Once the place is rented and the tenants stays long term, you can only raise the rent once a year based on the amount the province allows (unless you have a good reason to raise it more, which they will most like inspect).

Here:s what I did with my rooms: I put the rent high enough so welfare people can't afford it. I also ask for last months rent (which is the same amount). Since welfare people can't afford it, the welfare office normally helps them and pays for the last month for them. But they have a set limit on how much they will pay. I have set my rent 50$ higher than their allotted amount and I am not negotiable. So no welfare.

Disability people can afford my rooms, although strangely, I have never really had a person on disability apply.


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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #20069235 -

LunarEclipse said:
Prisoner#1 said:
zappaisgod said:
I got an idea.  You stay in Canada and keep disavowing and surrendering your property rights and luvdem and I will stay in America and try to get all of ours back.

Whether to keep a tenant or not should be a decision based solely on your business.  Not some stupid lying bureaucrat's.  Do you know why there is a shortage of housing and exorbitant rents in NYC?  Because a large part of the housing stock is rent controlled.  It deflates investment and causes market rate rents to increase.  Meanwhile we have shitbags like Charlie Rangel using 3 rent controlled apartments.  Rent control is a corrupt perversion of the market.

Did you pay your taxes yet?



rent control leads to slum lording, when the owner cant afford to pay for
upkeep on the property he has no choice but to allow it to degrade


or sell it or is that even allowed for a "rental" property?  can they designate it "rental only"?


no one likes buying bad investments. if I cant make enough to pay the
mortgage and do repairs to the property then it's a losing proposition


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: psi]
    #20069263 -

psi said:
luvdemshrooms said:
psi said:
Yes, I am a renter.


And there it is.

Situational ethics. They're only sightly better worse than no ethics at all.

You know the guy with no ethics will fuck you so you always keep your eye on him.


Complete and utter bullshit. What have I said to indicate I would believe this regulation was immoral if I were a landlord? I might conceivably be more likely to oppose it out of personal interest, but that doesn't mean I would change my stance that it does not constitute a moral wrong.


Limiting the rent a landlord can charge for the building he bought and paid for is immoral.

No bullshit about it. Situational ethics is a distinct and clear sign of a lack of morals. You are advocating for some faceless asswipe to have control over the income and property of someone conducting a legal business.

A moral goal achieved through immoral means is in no way a moral outcome.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: Patlal]
    #20069280 -

Patlal said:
ALright, I need to clear a little thing up because I have a strange feeling you guys have the wrong idea of rent control.


When a room or apartment is empty and you are looking for a tenant, you can set your rent at whatever amount you choose. 1$ a month or 10000$ a month. Its your choice.

Then again, if you want to rent the place, you gotta reasonable depending on the quality of your real estate.

Once the place is rented and the tenants stays long term, you can only raise the rent once a year based on the amount the province allows (unless you have a good reason to raise it more, which they will most like inspect).

Here:s what I did with my rooms: I put the rent high enough so welfare people can't afford it. I also ask for last months rent (which is the same amount). Since welfare people can't afford it, the welfare office normally helps them and pays for the last month for them. But they have a set limit on how much they will pay. I have set my rent 50$ higher than their allotted amount and I am not negotiable. So no welfare.

Disability people can afford my rooms, although strangely, I have never really had a person on disability apply.


I know exactly what rent control is but thanks for the condescending answer.

I myself choose to not discriminate against those on welfare if their income is sufficient. Why do you hate welfare recipients?

Are you a believer in price controls in general or are landlords the main target of your righteous indignation?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20069319 -

luvdemshrooms said:
Patlal said:
ALright, I need to clear a little thing up because I have a strange feeling you guys have the wrong idea of rent control.


When a room or apartment is empty and you are looking for a tenant, you can set your rent at whatever amount you choose. 1$ a month or 10000$ a month. Its your choice.

Then again, if you want to rent the place, you gotta reasonable depending on the quality of your real estate.

Once the place is rented and the tenants stays long term, you can only raise the rent once a year based on the amount the province allows (unless you have a good reason to raise it more, which they will most like inspect).

Here:s what I did with my rooms: I put the rent high enough so welfare people can't afford it. I also ask for last months rent (which is the same amount). Since welfare people can't afford it, the welfare office normally helps them and pays for the last month for them. But they have a set limit on how much they will pay. I have set my rent 50$ higher than their allotted amount and I am not negotiable. So no welfare.

Disability people can afford my rooms, although strangely, I have never really had a person on disability apply.


I know exactly what rent control is but thanks for the condescending answer.

I myself choose to not discriminate against those on welfare if their income is sufficient. Why do you hate welfare recipients?

Are you a believer in price controls in general or are landlords the main target of your righteous indignation?


I don't necessarily hate welfare recipients. I choose to set my rent price higher than the average because I offer more than others. It just so hapens that welfare recipients can't afford it. And, lets be honest, welfare people aren't the classiest bunch. I'd rather stay away from it. Plus my house has enough quality in it to be considered middle income.

I believe in a certain price control. I think it is unfair to hike the rent to "motivate" someone to move out. If they are bad people, I can legally evict them using the right channels.


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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20069329 -

I think he was explaining how it works in Canada which is completely different from how it works in the great swamp of perversity that is NYC.  Isn't it interesting that socialist manipulates the rent to avoid welfare cases?  That and his tax dodges. 

I don't think anybody can call me greedy given this example


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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20069389 -

luvdemshrooms said:
psi said:
luvdemshrooms said:
psi said:
Yes, I am a renter.


And there it is.

Situational ethics. They're only sightly better worse than no ethics at all.

You know the guy with no ethics will fuck you so you always keep your eye on him.


Complete and utter bullshit. What have I said to indicate I would believe this regulation was immoral if I were a landlord? I might conceivably be more likely to oppose it out of personal interest, but that doesn't mean I would change my stance that it does not constitute a moral wrong.


Limiting the rent a landlord can charge for the building he bought and paid for is immoral.

No bullshit about it. Situational ethics is a distinct and clear sign of a lack of morals. You are advocating for some faceless asswipe to have control over the income and property of someone conducting a legal business.

A moral goal achieved through immoral means is in no way a moral outcome.


Perhaps you can show me where I advocated for these laws. "Bullshit" was in reference to your claim of "situational ethics". I just don't subscribe to your view that it's immoral. We disagree. That doesn't make me a waffler or a person lacking in morals, it just makes me someone who disagrees with you.

Do you believe that homosexuality is not immoral? Someone who subscribed to an ideology that said that it was immoral could echo your "situational ethics" accusation against you (and perhaps say you were "advocating for homosexuality" as well) if you said that it was not immoral. And their argument would be just as full of shit as yours is.

Edited by psi (06/01/14 03:33 PM)

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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #20069474 -

zappaisgod said:
Isn't it interesting that socialist manipulates the rent to avoid welfare cases?


Yes, it's interesting that a moral crusader would deliberately set his rates at a level that "undesirables" can't afford.

Interesting but not surprising, in the current "so as I say but not as I do" society we're cursed with.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: psi] * 1
    #20069491 -

psi said:

I don't find homosexuality immoral, merely unappealing. What I do find immoral is advocating a position where some nameless, faceless ass has control over what a legal business owner charges for his service.


Quote:
We disagree. That doesn't make me a waffler or a person lacking in morals


We disagree.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20069513 -

luvdemshrooms said:
psi said:

I don't find homosexuality immoral, merely unappealing. What I do find immoral is advocating a position where some nameless, faceless ass has control over what a legal business owner charges for his service.



Oh, did you find some statement in this thread where I actually did advocate rent control laws? Saying that I don't consider it immoral is not the same thing as advocating it. Arguing that your statement "I don't find homosexuality immoral, merely unappealing" advocated homosexuality would be a similarly nonsensical stretch.

Quote:
Quote:
We disagree. That doesn't make me a waffler or a person lacking in morals


We disagree.


At least we can agree on that much.

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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: psi]
    #20069535 -

psi said:
Oh, did you find some statement in this thread where I actually did advocate rent control laws?


If you are OK with certain businesses being told what they can charge for a legal service, that covers that base as well as needed.

It's an appalling stance that I don't believe you'd favor were it you being negatively affected.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20069630 -

Greed


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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20069714 -

luvdemshrooms said:
psi said:
Oh, did you find some statement in this thread where I actually did advocate rent control laws?


If you are OK with certain businesses being told what they can charge for a legal service, that covers that base as well as needed.

It's an appalling stance that I don't believe you'd favor were it you being negatively affected.


I'm struggling to think of a situation where this really would impact me negatively if I were a landlord. The limit only applies when the same tenant is staying for another term and the actual costs have not shot up a lot more than inflation over the lease term (and the building was built no later than 1991.)

Even if I were a landlord and negatively affected somehow, I certainly would not suddenly adopt the stance that the laws were morally wrong. I can accept that this stance makes sense within your mindset though.

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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: psi] * 1
    #20069770 -

I don't find all laws morally wrong.

Laws that prevent a business/property owner from operating his business in a legal manner as he sees fit are reprehensible and morally indefensible.

Any landlord that has expenses that rise beyond what the state allows them to recoup in rent has been negatively affected. One should not have to appeal to someone who likely doesn't give a shit about the property owner and their income needs. Landlords are responsible for the safe and legal operation of their properties, they are not responsible for the ability of their tenants to pay for it. If the state wishes to offer welfare to some, then let them do so but landlords should not be the ones paying for the vote buying schemes of politicians. They've shifted the burden from the many, to the few.

Free or reduced cost shit is almost always going to be popular to those who don't have to pay the price.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20069992 -

luvdemshrooms said:
I don't find all laws morally wrong.

Laws that prevent a business/property owner from operating his business in a legal manner as he sees fit are reprehensible and morally indefensible.


... to ideologues of a certain bent. To most everyone else they are just a fact of life and the cost of doing business. If I don't like the laws that apply to landlords or taxicab companies or whatever, I won't go into business in those fields. I'm not going to go on a hunger strike and set myself on fire over the injustice of it all.

Quote:
Any landlord that has expenses that rise beyond what the state allows them to recoup in rent has been negatively affected. One should not have to appeal to someone who likely doesn't give a shit about the property owner and their income needs.


So even if the landlord is able to raise the rent enough to cover their costs, they've still been wronged because the bureaucrats they had to deal with briefly may not give a shit about them? So what?

Quote:
Landlords are responsible for the safe and legal operation of their properties, they are not responsible for the ability of their tenants to pay for it. If the state wishes to offer welfare to some, then let them do so but landlords should not be the ones paying for the vote buying schemes of politicians. They've shifted the burden from the many, to the few.

Free or reduced cost shit is almost always going to be popular to those who don't have to pay the price.


If landlords were getting screwed badly enough by this, they would get out of the business. Instead they've kept at it, presumably because it's still profitable.

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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: psi]
    #20070016 -

In other words... feel free to screw landlords because I personally benefit from it.

Appalling.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers

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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: psi]
    #20070029 -

I am going to point out the housing shortage and incredibly high market rents in NYC.  All caused by decades of rent regulation.

What Patlal described as rent control isn't shit


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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20070033 -

Greed


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Re: so my landlord raised the rent on us.. [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #20070058 -

No, that isn't what I argued at all. I don't believe landlords in Ontario are getting screwed by this in the first place, and I don't think you've made a convincing argument that they are. My landlords are relatives and have not raised the rent at all in 5 years, so this law being absent likely would not have made a difference for me anyway.

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