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General Interest > Culinary Arts, Gardening and Brewing
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Botched Vinegar?
    #19466795 -

I'm a newb at brewing and I recently botched some raspberry wine. I decided to try making vinegar out of it but I think I've botched that too.

My "vinegar" developed a white membrane on the surface that broke apart when the liquid was moved. A lot of it has stuck to the sides of the glass, but some has sunk to the bottom in kind of in a sheet. It smells fruity instead of vinegary. Anybody know what kind of bacteria this is? Or what else it could be?


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Edited by dizzy_simmons (01/24/14 10:03 AM)

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Re: Bacteria other than Acetobacter? [Re: dizzy_simmons]
    #19466839 -

I am trying to make apple cider vinegar at present, and have similar "contams."

The first batch of apple water was left covered for 2 weeks, strained and bottled and left to ferment. There is a cloudy-chunky-off-white substance loosely growing in the bottom - I am wondering if this is "the mother?" Otherwise, it is starting to smell and look like vinegar and I think I am on the right track. I read that this build up is normal, and that I should decant the vinegar off the top in order to separate the vinegar from the cloudy stuff. I am not sure how i can decant, other than using a pipette (which i don't have) - i used a very narrow necked bottle. :S

However, I tried a 2nd batch using apples about to go off. I left the apples soaking in water for 1 week, uncovered and I had what appeared to be mold or other undesirable solids growing on the surface, as you describe.

In "wild fermentation" sandor katz describes how you can either decant the vinegar from underneath the "skin" or gently scoop the skin off the top. It is a surface phenomenon and shouldn't contaminate the vinegar (which is an inhospitable environment for most undesirable microorganisms)

However, it sounds like your contamination has now entered the vinegar, possibly contaminating it - I'd probably restart. Maybe remove what you can, and ferment and see what happens. If it is suspect in the end you could maybe use it externally, instead of as a food source.

From my understanding it takes at least 4-6 weeks to ferment into vinegar.


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Re: Bacteria other than Acetobacter? [Re: PDU]
    #19471196 -

I had a similar white contam in a brambles wine I made. I gave it plenty of time to see if it would dissipate/ settle or go away at all but it permanently ruined the batch n I just tossed it down the drain.  White lumps got suspended in the mixture and it just looked like a total write off. You could try skimming/ filtering it but I'd guess the taste would be compromised and visually it wasn't anything I'd even attempt to offer someone or drink myself.

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Re: Bacteria other than Acetobacter? [Re: infected_2]
    #19471364 -

Like i said, your supposed to decant it off the top and leave the contam on the bottom, if you filter it will slide through the filter, cloudy the finished product and shorten the shelf life.

Not sure if mine is working or not - will post in a few weeks when it out.


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Re: Bacteria other than Acetobacter? [Re: PDU]
    #19475963 -

The white film is probably kahm yeast, a type of aerobic yeast (according to mr katz anyways). It's harmless and will almost surely form if you don't have a proper one way air valve. Supposedly it affects the flavor but I can't really tell and I doubt you'll be able to notice in vinegar. It certainly adds ugly white specks to it. Try and scoop it off or filter and transfer to a new vessel. The stuff will always float to the top so you never have to worry about it being suspended in your brew. The film should stop forming once the brew becomes acidic enough by the way. This is why people usually add a little vinegar as starter, not just for bacteria but for the ph drop.

BTW, mother of vinegar will either form as a clear film on the surface like a kombucha mother (essentially a mother of vinegar) or it can look like these tan brown boogers floating around in your brew. Also harmless :wink:.


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Edited by cmspice (01/26/14 09:45 AM)

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Re: Bacteria other than Acetobacter? [Re: cmspice]
    #19475969 -

actually I don't know if they do that for vinegar to be totally honest but I can only imagine that they do. It's definitely common practice to add some of the last batch when making kombucha for the ph drop.


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have: blue, brown, pink, yellow, elm, king oyster, reishi, nameko, black poplar, shaggy mane, PESA

want: ABM, ganoderma spp., straw mushroom, exotic pleurotus species, ethno cuttings/seeds.

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