Murph said:

How do you not see the "entitlement mentality" in yourself when you're demanding that poor people not be paid higher wages so you can pay less taxes, why are you entitled to paying a lower tax percentage than the poor? Taxes that will no doubt go toward public assistance that is only being given out to the same poor people because you refuse to let them have higher wages.

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Gilgamesh18 said:

I am not entitled to anything that I didn't earn. The poor are not helpless people that need constant help from the state charitable organizations and religious institutions do an excellent job of providing a helping hand. As for workers they hold all the cards they need work and if a company does not pay them a fair wage they can quit. No one is forced to work anywhere. I am however forced to pay taxes through threat of violence against me by the state so I think its only fair that I lobby for lowered taxes to decrease state power.

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Gilgamesh18 said:

I am not entitled to anything that I didn't earn.

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Quote:

No one is forced to work anywhere. I am however forced to pay taxes through threat of violence against me by the state so I think its only fair that I lobby for lowered taxes to decrease state power.

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Crystal G said:

Gilgamesh18 said:

I am not entitled to anything that I didn't earn.

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And who do you think creates the standard of wages that the poor earned? This whole concept of "what you earn" is pretty arbitrary, especially when somebody else is arbitrarily setting those standards in the first place. Somebody's value of labor is not necessarily always equal to whatever that labor is actually worth.

Quote:

No one is forced to work anywhere. I am however forced to pay taxes through threat of violence against me by the state so I think its only fair that I lobby for lowered taxes to decrease state power.

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How can you say that people truly have a choice, when people need food and rent money to survive? Clearly "free will" can only take you so far if your basic needs are not being met.

Besides, if companies started paying their workers less, then you would see your taxes increase to compensate for the laborer's substandard living, not the other way around.

Remember how we went over how much the average Walmart worker costs each taxpayer in another thread? Yeah...

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Gilgamesh18 said:

Religious institutions don't try to steal from me that is why I have no problem with them helping the poor there are secular charities as well that exist. You still assume that the state is the best way to help the poor I disagree. Free markets bring the majority out of poverty not state sanctioned handouts that create dependence.

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ohcrapitsnico said:

Gilgamesh18 said:

Religious institutions don't try to steal from me that is why I have no problem with them helping the poor there are secular charities as well that exist. You still assume that the state is the best way to help the poor I disagree. Free markets bring the majority out of poverty not state sanctioned handouts that create dependence.

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I don't think the argument is we should establish a plethora of welfare programs. The argument is we can not rely on the 1% to do the right thing and pay their workers skilled or not the right wages. People are greedy and wealth inequality will continue to spiral out of control  as long as the few can hoard all the money they can. The rules need to be changed.

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Murph said:

Religious institution do nothing but take from people and they don't even pay taxes..... I mean it's a giant scam where they sell people nothing and take any handout they can get, then they hand out a few soups to please the likes of you only so they can keep stealing and skirting taxes.

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Religious charities give a great deal as do secular ones and at least in the west you don't having bishops going door to door demanding money

Gilgamesh18 said:

Religious institutions don't try to steal from me that is why I have no problem with them helping the poor there are secular charities as well that exist. You still assume that the state is the best way to help the poor I disagree. Free markets bring the majority out of poverty not state sanctioned handouts that create dependence.

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Crystal G said:

Gilgamesh18 said:

Religious institutions don't try to steal from me that is why I have no problem with them helping the poor there are secular charities as well that exist. You still assume that the state is the best way to help the poor I disagree. Free markets bring the majority out of poverty not state sanctioned handouts that create dependence.

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Let's face it, most people aren't going to donate a penny to aid the poor. So basically, this means any type of aid to the poor will be drastically minimized and reduced. You're just going to create a new class of third-world poverty.... forrrr what, again?

In any case, we talked about this in another thread. The type of "welfare" you're thinking of is only costing you 2% of the federal budget. If you don't want to pay high taxes, you attack Medicare, Medicaid, and the military budget first. Getting rid of the type of welfare you're thinking of isn't going to do shit, because even if you're successful at getting rid of it, you're still left with 98% of the budget that you still have to pay for. lol

I also don't see you constantly complaining about people who abuse the tax system to get out of paying taxes. Like those doctors who pay for escorts with a check, then write it off as a "personal trainer" or "business venture." This actually costs your average taxpayer substantially in the long run.

I think that you have some type of deep-seated hatred of poor people, considering how much you target them.

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Gilgamesh18 said:

Wealth inequality is not the issue Bill Gates having billions does not effect my or your ability to earn a living.

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Gilgamesh18 said:

Religious charities give a great deal as do secular ones and at least in the west you don't having bishops going door to door demanding money

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Gilgamesh18 said:

Crystal G said:

Gilgamesh18 said:

I am not entitled to anything that I didn't earn.

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And who do you think creates the standard of wages that the poor earned? This whole concept of "what you earn" is pretty arbitrary, especially when somebody else is arbitrarily setting those standards in the first place. Somebody's value of labor is not necessarily always equal to whatever that labor is actually worth.

Quote:

No one is forced to work anywhere. I am however forced to pay taxes through threat of violence against me by the state so I think its only fair that I lobby for lowered taxes to decrease state power.

---

How can you say that people truly have a choice, when people need food and rent money to survive? Clearly "free will" can only take you so far if your basic needs are not being met.

Besides, if companies started paying their workers less, then you would see your taxes increase to compensate for the laborer's substandard living, not the other way around.

Remember how we went over how much the average Walmart worker costs each taxpayer in another thread? Yeah...

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I would hope if companies started paying there workers less that the workers would quit and or negotiate higher wages as is there right.

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Gilgamesh18 said:

Crystal G said:

Gilgamesh18 said:

Religious institutions don't try to steal from me that is why I have no problem with them helping the poor there are secular charities as well that exist. You still assume that the state is the best way to help the poor I disagree. Free markets bring the majority out of poverty not state sanctioned handouts that create dependence.

---

Let's face it, most people aren't going to donate a penny to aid the poor. So basically, this means any type of aid to the poor will be drastically minimized and reduced. You're just going to create a new class of third-world poverty.... forrrr what, again?

In any case, we talked about this in another thread. The type of "welfare" you're thinking of is only costing you 2% of the federal budget. If you don't want to pay high taxes, you attack Medicare, Medicaid, and the military budget first. Getting rid of the type of welfare you're thinking of isn't going to do shit, because even if you're successful at getting rid of it, you're still left with 98% of the budget that you still have to pay for. lol

I also don't see you constantly complaining about people who abuse the tax system to get out of paying taxes. Like those doctors who pay for escorts with a check, then write it off as a "personal trainer" or "business venture." This actually costs your average taxpayer substantially in the long run.

I think that you have some type of deep-seated hatred of poor people, considering how much you target them.

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I technically qualify as poor since I made less than 20,000 last year so rest assured I am not well off I am a poor student. As for the wars of course they should be cut and our military budget cut I of course agree with that.

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Murph said:

Gilgamesh18 said:

Religious charities give a great deal as do secular ones and at least in the west you don't having bishops going door to door demanding money

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They send people out door to door to recruit everyday asking for you to join so you'll start giving 10% of your wages to help their organization and feed the poor LIKE THEY DONT HAVE GOLDEN FUCKIN PALACE IN ROME..... melt it down, sell of your works of priceless art and go help someone you goddamn crooks.

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Crystal G said:

Gilgamesh18 said:

Crystal G said:

Gilgamesh18 said:

Religious institutions don't try to steal from me that is why I have no problem with them helping the poor there are secular charities as well that exist. You still assume that the state is the best way to help the poor I disagree. Free markets bring the majority out of poverty not state sanctioned handouts that create dependence.

---

Let's face it, most people aren't going to donate a penny to aid the poor. So basically, this means any type of aid to the poor will be drastically minimized and reduced. You're just going to create a new class of third-world poverty.... forrrr what, again?

In any case, we talked about this in another thread. The type of "welfare" you're thinking of is only costing you 2% of the federal budget. If you don't want to pay high taxes, you attack Medicare, Medicaid, and the military budget first. Getting rid of the type of welfare you're thinking of isn't going to do shit, because even if you're successful at getting rid of it, you're still left with 98% of the budget that you still have to pay for. lol

I also don't see you constantly complaining about people who abuse the tax system to get out of paying taxes. Like those doctors who pay for escorts with a check, then write it off as a "personal trainer" or "business venture." This actually costs your average taxpayer substantially in the long run.

I think that you have some type of deep-seated hatred of poor people, considering how much you target them.

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I technically qualify as poor since I made less than 20,000 last year so rest assured I am not well off I am a poor student. As for the wars of course they should be cut and our military budget cut I of course agree with that.

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Yes, well, I've talked about my theories concerning people like you. People like you are essentially self-hating poor people.

You say you are poor and a student, so I'm assuming you are on welfare of some kind. Either financial aid, EBT, something or another. It's almost as if you feel such shame for using these services yourself, that you truly believe that by following the "American dream" and feeling no sympathy for the poor, you will be able to crawl your way up the corporate ladder and make a big success of yourself ONE DAY.

Your preoccupation with the poor is frankly, abnormal, and seems more of a way to criticize or bully the poor, rather than address real budgetary issues.

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Gilgamesh18 said:

I have no problem with the poor I just believe that having a strong free market economy is the best way to help them not handouts. And when I make a decent wage one day I will willingly donate to causes I support.

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