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Re: How can these spores be rare? [Re: Forrester]
    #18300658 -

Forrester said:
So, did anyone ever figure out how to break the spore's walls? 

This place says they use a "low temperature fractioning process", but I'm not really sure what that means...



I don't think that's how u do it. They simply say they don't denature it in high temps like other company's.

They say they process it at low temps. What the process is is a secret, I can't find it anywhere. All any sites have to say is that It's a "high tech" process....


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EVERYTHING I SAY IS A LIE!!! N ALL MY PICS R STOLEN
WORTH EVERY PENNY!!!!watch it pay for it self in # of high yield flushes!
SO DOPE
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination. "  Albert.

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Re: How can these spores be rare? [Re: smegzilla69]
    #18300689 -

smegzilla69 said:
Forrester said:
So, did anyone ever figure out how to break the spore's walls? 

This place says they use a "low temperature fractioning process", but I'm not really sure what that means...



I don't think that's how u do it. They simply say they don't denature it in high temps like other company's.

They say they process it at low temps. What the process is is a secret, I can't find it anywhere. All any sites have to say is that It's a "high tech" process....



Yeah if you go to the very bottom of that link I put, they call it a "low temperature fractioning process".  Just wondered if anyone knew that that was.  These medicinal mushroom product people are (understandably I guess) quite secretive about their processes!


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.

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Re: How can these spores be rare? [Re: Forrester]
    #18300791 -

Lol their "high tech" process could be a fucking pestle and mortar lol.


--------------------

EVERYTHING I SAY IS A LIE!!! N ALL MY PICS R STOLEN
WORTH EVERY PENNY!!!!watch it pay for it self in # of high yield flushes!
SO DOPE
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination. "  Albert.

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Re: How can these spores be rare? [Re: smegzilla69]
    #18300911 -

smegzilla69 said:
Lol their "high tech" process could be a fucking pestle and mortar lol.



:lol: yeah, if it involves a stove or any kind of solvent, it's SUPER-high tech.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.

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Re: How can these spores be rare? [Re: Forrester]
    #18301780 -

IIRC I read an article a while back on how autoclaving renders spores inert.  I'll have to attempt to find it again, but the gist was autoclaving at (120c?) for a set amount of time would simply destroy the spore wall and expose the internal proteins to outside influences where they could not survive and gestate.

It honestly might be that simple of a process.  :shrug: 

In addition we all know what fractional sterilization is....  maybe that could be a link to their lower temp methodology?

Just some food for thought.  I do not currently have the means to see if it would work, (assuming it could be done afterwards with a high power microscope) but will be growing some reishi after my Oyster grow is done.  I might attempt this, and if I still not have gotten my microscope yet I may have access to one elsewhere.    Any other ideas on how to tell if it works?

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Re: How can these spores be rare? [Re: Forrester]
    #22009150 -

Forrester said:
So, did anyone ever figure out how to break the spore's walls? 

This place says they use a "low temperature fractioning process", but I'm not really sure what that means...



Excuse me for the bump. This high tech process seems to be the freeze and thaw method. It is a (highly) expensive and time consuming process of freezing cells/spores with liquid nitrogen and let them come back to room temp for numorous times until the cells break and release their contents. I have done it a few times with bacteria. With spores it might prove usefull to let them hydrate first, which will decrease the time necessary. The water will break the cell wall/membrane because it wil become crystalline when frozen.

If you can get liquid nitrogen, some alcohol and water mixture and a decent speed rotator for vials - or a drill+ducttape-, you could do this at home.

Compared to ultrasoni(fi)cation it yields higher purity (in proteins) but lower total weight. FT is also a little more easy on the ears than sonification.

For extraction of 5x50mL of spore water, you would need at least 10 litres of liquid nitrogen.

If anyone wants me to elaborate, or write out the entire process, just shoot me a PM. Maybe we can think of a way to do it with dry ice too. I would love to see if it works.

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Re: How can these spores be rare? [Re: kaaskop]
    #22009611 -

I don't know if this is mentioned above, but Ganoderma spores have a double wall structure making them extra hard to break, I have tried freezing them to break them, come to think of it I think I have some in the freezer now that have been in there for some time, I can pull them out to see if it worked.


--------------------

10 different Ganoderma species from across the USA

AMU

MrCloudys guide to North American GanodermaUpdated A rough guide to North American Ganoderma species, with an emphasis on the laccate species.

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Re: How can these spores be rare? [Re: Mrcloudy]
    #22010141 -

Quote:
I read an article a while back on how autoclaving renders spores inert.  I'll have to attempt to find it again, but the gist was autoclaving at (120c?) for a set amount of time would simply destroy the spore wall and expose the internal proteins to outside influences where they could not survive and gestate.



Pressure and heat normally activate the enzymes responsible for germination of the sporoderm. Would probably be a good choice if heat doesnt break down the active ingredients. A low temperature tyndallization might be more appropriate so the actives are not decomposed and enzymatic activities continue to work.

In U.S. Pat. No. 6,316,002 the spores are soaked, germinated, then weakened with lytic enzymes or micronized physically. Finally it is dried and a methanol extraction is done and purified.

Quote:
The present invention provides a method for providing neuroprotection of dopaminergic neurons and treatment of Parkinson's Disease (PD). The method involves administering an effective amount of germination activated Ganoderma spore powders (GASP) into a mammal having PD.

Ganoderma (Ganoderma lucidum Leyss ex Fr. Karst) is a polyporous fungus which belongs to the class Basidiomycetes, the family Polypolaceae, and the genus Ganoderma. Ganoderma spores are tiny and mist-like spores of 5˜8 μm in sizes which have extremely hard and resilient, double-layer epispores, thus making them difficult to break open. The spores contain high concentrations of many bioactive substances, including, but are not limited to, polyunsaturated fatty acids, polysaccharides, vitamins, sterols, trace minerals, amino acids, and triterpenes. The GASP used in the present invention are sporoderm-broken (i.e., the double-layer epispores of the spores are broken so that the bioactive substances within the spores are released), which is produced by the method described in U.S. Pat. No. 6,316,002 (“the '002 patent). The entire content of the '002 patent is herein incorporated by reference.

Through the unique spore-breaking method described in the '002 patent, the bioactive substances within the GASP are recovered in high yields and the functional activities of the bioactive substances are successfully preserved.

As shown below is a general description of the method used in the '002 patent, which leads to the production of the GASP:

I. Soaking to induce germination: Mature and perfect spores of Ganoderma lucidum were carefully selected to carry out a soaking process to induce germination. Spores were kept in clear or distilled water, biological saline solution, or other nutritional solutions that could enable the spores of Ganoderma lucidum to germinate rapidly. Examples of nutritional solutions include coconut juice or a 1-5% malt extract solution, 0.5-25% extracts of Ganoderma lucidum sporocarps or Ganoderma lucidum capillitia, 0.1-5% of culture solution containing biotin, 0.1-3% of culture solution containing monobasic potassium phosphate and magnesium sulfate. The choice of solution would depend on the soaking time required, the amount of spores to be processed and other such factors as availability of materials. One or more of the above germination solutions could be used, with the amount added being 0.1-5 times the weight of the spores of Ganoderma lucidum. The soaking time can be determined according to the temperature of the water, and usually the soaking was carried out for 30 min to 8 h with the temperature of the water at 20-43° C. Preferably soaking times were 2-4 hours, and temperature of the water was 25-35° C.

II. Activation culture: The spores of Ganoderma lucidum were removed from the soaking solution and excess water was eliminated by allowing it to drip. The spores were then placed in a well-ventilated culturing box at a constant temperature and humidity so that spore activation culture could be carried out. The relative humidity of the culture was generally set at 65-98%, the culture temperature at 18-48° C. and the activation time lasted from 30 min to 24 h. Preferably humidity is 85-97% and temperature is 25-35° C. Using the method provided by the present invention, the activation of spores of Ganoderma lucidum reached a rate of more than 95%. During activation, the cell walls of the spores of red Ganoderma lucidum were clearly softened such that it was easier to penetrate the cell walls of the spores.

III. Treatment of the epispores: After the germination activation process, the spores were treated by enzymolysis. This process was carried out at a low temperature and under conditions such that enzyme activity was maintained, using chitinase, cellulase, or other enzymes, which are commonly used in the industry. The process was complete when the epispores lost their resilience and became brittle. Alternatively, physical treatments were carried out to penetrate the cell walls, for example, micronization, roll pressing, grinding, super high pressure microstream treatment, and other mechanical methods commonly used in the industry could be carried out, with a penetration rate of over 99%.

IV. Drying or extraction: Drying was carried out at low temperature using standard methods including freeze-drying or vacuum-drying etc., which are commonly used in the industry. The obtained product had a moisture content less than 4%. After drying, the bioactive substances were extracted by water or alcohol, or by thin film condensation. The extracted bioactive substances could be further purified by dialysis to ensure no contamination in the final products.

V. Pharmaceutical formulations of the bioactive substances: The bioactive substances can then be made into purified powders, extract pastes, solutions for injection, or for oral consumption. The invention also encompasses the manufacture of pharmaceutical preparations of the active substances, using well-known expedients and methods of manufacture known in the art. In addition, the bioactive substances can be dosed by any convenient method including tablets, capsules, solutions, suppositories, nasal sprays, paranterals, or injection devices. The choice of method for administration is determined by the clinical situation of the patient. The bioactive substances of the present invention, produced by the methods described, include active genes, inducers of the biotic potential promotor, inducers of the multicellular activator, inducers of interferon, lactone A, ganoderma polysaccharide, ganoderma spore fatty acids, ganoderma spore long chain alkyl hydrocarbon, ganoderma triterpenes, sterols, superoxide dismutase, vitamin E, active glycoprotein, certain growth factors, ganoderma acid A, superoxide dismutases (SOD), active glycoproteins, multiple active enzymes, and growth factors and so on. These bioactive substances, in a whole, contribute to the therapeutic uses described in the later sections.

GASP are non-toxic. The preferred method for administering GASP is through oral uptake. Currently, GASP are approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) to be used as dietary supplement in the capsule form under the name of Enhanvol® and Holistol, sold by Enhan Technology Holdings International Company, Ltd. in Hong Kong. Each capsule of GASP contains 0.3 g of GASP. The recommended dosage of GASP, when used as dietary supplement, is 4 times every day, 4 capsules each time. Thus, for an adult of 60 kg, the daily dosage of GASP as dietary supplement is at about 0.08 g/kg of body weight per day.



By activating the spores the active ingredients are present in greater qualities as if they continue to synthesize as the spore germinate.

If you need lytic enzymes a.k.a. lysin mixtures PM Feelers, hes working on culturing protoplasts and is currently searching for a cheap source. He was looking particularly at trichoderma harzianum lytic enzymes from sigma aldrich which would be perfect for breaking the walls down. Perhaps a co-buy would benefit both of you and anyone else interested?

Heres a thread he recently started on the sourcing and use of lytic enzymes.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22001124#22001124

:goodluck:


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups

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Re: How can these spores be rare? [Re: Toadstool5]
    #22010238 -

Chitinase can be found in puffball mushrooms and seems to play a role in its spore release, I am exploring that avenue for spore breaking myself.


--------------------

10 different Ganoderma species from across the USA

AMU

MrCloudys guide to North American GanodermaUpdated A rough guide to North American Ganoderma species, with an emphasis on the laccate species.

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Re: How can these spores be rare? [Re: Mrcloudy]
    #22010275 -

Quote:
Chitinase can be found in puffball mushrooms and seems to play a role in its spore release,



Chitinase is a huge part of the lytic mixtures, i wonder if cellulase is extractable from any brown-rot fungi?


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups

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Re: How can these spores be rare? [Re: Mrcloudy]
    #22019870 -

Mrcloudy said:
I don't know if this is mentioned above, but Ganoderma spores have a double wall structure making them extra hard to break, I have tried freezing them to break them, come to think of it I think I have some in the freezer now that have been in there for some time, I can pull them out to see if it worked.



Well, it should work. But only by repeating the process a few dozen of times.
With E. Coli it took 6-8 rounds (-170C to +20C), and those have pretty flimsy cell membranes. In total it took about 6 hours for 50mL of culture.

As for the lytic enzymes; I don't need them, I don't even have G. Lucidum to process (at least, I think I don't) and I wonder if these enzymes don't break down the actives as well. Most cell walls/membranes are composed of the same materials as the actives seem to be. On the other side, chemistry has never been my best side, I could be dead wrong.

The freeze thaw method is basically fool proof, no enzymes involved, if it actually works it could even prevent further break down of active ingredients since the temperature is too low for any enzyme to be active. I would try it right now if I had LN and specimens. But I have neither ;-)
What I do have, is a lot of free time.

Edited by kaaskop (07/30/15 01:38 PM)

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